Fine Art America - any good?

[John Mitchell]

 

Hi everybody, I just wondered if any of you who are with FAA  have joined the ABC/Disney program or the Interior designer program and how was it working out for you? Have you made any sales through those programs? Cheers, Harry Lee.

 

I've got the Designer Prints program enabled and have made one sale so far:

 

 

A 30 x 20" print. It was sold for a 65% discount, so I only got $43.75, but a buyer with that big a discount must be buying large quanities regularly, so it may lead to more sales.

 

@Peter - I've been with FAA for about 3 years now, don't do any marketing at all, don't use FB etc, but make regular sales, so buyers must be finding me somehow - Google I suspect.

 

 

That's encouraging to hear, Rick. Congratulations. Very nice shot. I signed up for both those programs and have had no luck yet. However, I've made a couple of regular print sales and one iPhone case sale recently. I don't do any self-promotion either. I really should consider raising my prices by the sounds of it...

[geoff s]

I've had less than 20 images on each and no marketing so I suppose one sale is not too bad.

John said " I really should consider raising my prices by the sounds of it..."

 In terms of pricing I left mine at the default rates on the grounds of 'they know bes't and I didnt want to discourage any sale. What's the consensus on this ?

[Lastrega]

 

Congratulations - well done!

 

I have about 200 images on there now, but no sales yet.  I am not sure if my lack of self-promotion (No Twitter, No Facebook, No Blog) contributes to the lack of sales.   Do you do any of that?

 

 

Thanks Peter!  I have facebook. but don't have much activity on there. I have 122 images on FAA, I've been on it since April, but uploaded most of the images in the last couple of months.

 

I have an all time total of 234 views on FAA, so my traffic is rubbish!  I have noticed that somehow my FAA images appear high up on google though. The pic that sold was of the harbour at Capri and it sold to an American buyer.  Looking at the views, some are of my paintings, but most are holiday destinations - perhaps places that Americans have visited and want a picture of?

 

I'm going to keep adding to it. For $30 a year, it's a cheap way of having access to a huge market.

 

 

John - I looked at the prices other people were asking and increased mine to be more in line with those - although I am still not as dear as some. I don't want to outprice myself, but I have a (very successful) friend who keeps telling me that people don't appreciate things that are not expensive enough! He says that things that people buy to show off have to be at a price that hurts a little bit, otherwise they feel it is not worth having. 

 

I have tried this out with my ebay stuff.  Time and again I have had stuff that does not sell and then I bump the price UP and it goes.... I have to regularly check my items to make sure that they are NOT the cheapest available on ebay, because customers don't seem to want the cheapest option - they seem to be suspicious of that.  I think there is definitely a threshold on price - if it is worth having, it is worth paying for and so your prices should perhaps reflect that.

 

The clincher for me, I suppose, was seeing the dozens of big prints in IKEA and seeing their prices. They have dozens of the same image stacked up and lots of people buying them - so if the mass market stuff is that price, then I think people will expect to pay at least that amount and more for something that FAA are marketing to them as a tailored product..... 

 

Just my ramblings 

 

Anyway, I am no expert on FAA - I've only sold one print after all,  but it wouldn't do any harm to make some of your prices higher for a while and see how you get on?

[Lastrega]

 

John said " I really should consider raising my prices by the sounds of it..."

 In terms of pricing I left mine at the default rates on the grounds of 'they know bes't and I didnt want to discourage any sale. What's the consensus on this ?

 

Cheap prices means looking at cheap ordinary stuff. Higher prices evokes a feeling of dealing with quality, originality. Raising your prices might indeed lead to more sales in the fine art business. Not that I'm a fine art specialist, but I do know of one photographer (long time ago though) who sold a lot more after getting the advice of tripling his prices.

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

 

Ah, you beat me to it!  

 

You put it a lot more succinctly than me though....

[Dyn Llun]

FAA absolutely, categorically do NOT know best. In fact, they know, and do, nothing in terms of selling your work. I have said before I think they are a scam but others disagreed. No proper gallery charges for hosting your work and proper galleries and dealers are very, VERY, pro-active in constantly marketing your work in very sophisticated ways. They have built up a complex and far-reaching network of collectors and are constantly in touch with these and building up more clients. It's a very complex and sophisticated world. Also a very hard-nosed business one. They work very hard for their 50%, not just stick them up on a bulk website.  Sales are their only income, so your sales are important to them. They are incredibly knowledgeable about the market and their advice on sizing, pricing, editioning etc. etc. is invaluable. They are also very seletive in who and what they sell of course. They don't just 'take anything' as FAA and other, so-called, galleries do. 

 

I have been selling prints through proper galleries and dealers for nearly 40 years so do know this world well. I understand that there is a small market for cheaper, (I'm not being demeaning), inkjet prints for decorative purposes, but real, serious collectors acquire chromogenic prints if colour, or archival, fibre-base prints if black and white. I have given this advice before but it still stands. Check out AIPAD, all the good galleries belong to this. If they don't, stay away. Research each gallery to understand their specialisms and then you will get an idea. Visit some, it's an eye-opener. Check the prices, it can be a jaw dropper! 

 

I have just spent four days in my darkroom fulfilling some print orders. 16" x 20" selenium toned archival black and white prints from various bodies of work back to the 1960's to more recent stuff. They will sell (have already been sold) for four figures each. My larger colour prints much more. It takes a long time to build up a reputation but it also takes a proper gallery with proper skills and expertise to market your work. 

 

It's easy to sell 'on the cheap' but not good for your work, self-esteem, pocket, and, in the long term, photography as a whole. It's hard in the early days when no sales come, but stick to it, believe in your worth, and work with a proper gallery.

[Lastrega]

 

 

It's not that you are wrong.  You are correct in all you say about galleries, but for those of us who are not in that world, FAA is a reasonable way of  selling. I'd love to be in your position, but I'm not. I agree that  a person has to value their own work if they want others to value it, but while there is a market for Rolls Royces, millions of people buy Fords.  

 

Your post gives great advice for people wanting to sell to serious collectors, but FAA is a completely different market. I'm pretty sure myself and my photographs would be laughed out of any of the galleries you mention, because I am not a fine art photographer. That does not mean that I can't sell my images on FAA to people who want something they like to hang on their wall as a decorative item.

 

The customers on FAA are generally not serious art collectors in the sense that they are not buying original fine art, but there is a huge market there for those of us who are not in your position as such a successful artist.

 

I don't see it as a scam, simply as a service whereby they provide a portal for buyers and sellers - no different to ebay, amazon, google, facebook etc.,  The $30 a year is less than I pay for other web hosting services. It's just another service, but it's a completely different thing to the services of a traditional gallery. I don't think any of us are under the illusion that FAA are a fine art gallery. Nor are we under any mis-apprehension about them marketing our work, they don't take any percentage, so I have no expectation that they will do any of that. 

[Stokie]

Just had my first sale through FAA. One postcard where I got $1 commission.......

 

John.

[Dyn Llun]

Lastrega said " those of us who are not in your position as such a successful artist" .

 

The point I'm making, I think, is that if I am successful, it is with the help and support of those galleries and dealers that have supported and championed my work for the best part of forty years. I might have been making the same work without success if it wasn't for them. That's what a proper gallery / dealer does. It's a partnership. Online sites just can't, and don't do this. It's a very personal thing selling prints. Discerning buyers also want to see the goods! Up close! 

 

References were also made to 'Rolls Royce' and 'Fords'. I'd say 90% of those who buy my work drive Fords or equivalent. In other words not ogliarchs! In terms of my price status in the wider gallery world I'd say my work was at the Ford Fiesta end! A quick bit of research will tell you that if I sell my modest size B&W prints for low four figures, there are rather more where the prices are high four and five. They like me, achieve this level by the work of their gallery in partnership with the photographer. Of course, you have to have the photographs to begin with!

[Lastrega]

Lastrega said " those of us who are not in your position as such a successful artist" .

 

The point I'm making, I think, is that if I am successful, it is with the help and support of those galleries and dealers that have supported and championed my work for the best part of forty years. I might have been making the same work without success if it wasn't for them. That's what a proper gallery / dealer does. It's a partnership. Online sites just can't, and don't do this. It's a very personal thing selling prints. Discerning buyers also want to see the goods! Up close! 

 

References were also made to 'Rolls Royce' and 'Fords'. I'd say 90% of those who buy my work drive Fords or equivalent. In other words not ogliarchs! In terms of my price status in the wider gallery world I'd say my work was at the Ford Fiesta end! A quick bit of research will tell you that if I sell my modest size B&W prints for low four figures, there are rather more where the prices are high four and five. They like me, achieve this level by the work of their gallery in partnership with the photographer. Of course, you have to have the photographs to begin with!

 

 

Yes, I agree with you, only many of us are not trying to reach the heights that you have achieved - we just want to sell some prints and we are well aware of what FAA is and what it does. 

 

My reference to Rolls Royce and Fords was actually complementing you on having the sort of work that would be Rolls Royce to my Ford, nothing to do with what customers are driving. 

 

I do admire you for the stature you have achieved in photography. I don't have any argument with what you are saying except that I don't agree that FAA is a scam.  You would only think that if you were expecting a true gallery service, which I am not.

 

I know the gallery system - I have paintings in traditional galleries.  My point is that I understand what FAA does and I am not expecting a gallery service from them. I know what they are and I accept that.  It's not because I don't know about the work that traditional discerning galleries do, precisely the opposite - I know they wouldn't be interested in my photographs, so I have made the informed choice to try to sell through FAA.

 

And that's ok - that's my level. It's not because I am being scammed or conned. If I thought I was anywhere near good enough to sell my photographs as fine art, I'd be chapping on your door to ask how to go about it as you have obviously been very successful with it.

[Ed Rooney]

Wow! I'm not going to read through all 10 pages here to see if I might be be repeating something that's been said already. 

 

I've had a few sales early on, but I've never felt that my subject matter is what most middle class people want on their walls at home. Fair enough. Also I stupidly didn't notice that I was paying an annual fee to keep anything more that 25 images on the FAA site. 

 

However, my real pet peeve is the quid-pro-quo nonsense we find on FAA. Whenever I would put up some new images or make a sale, I would get a bunch of insincere pats on the back . . . and in turn I was expected to pat some backs myself. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Edo

[Lastrega]

However, my real pet peeve it this quid-pro-quo nonsense we find on FAA. Whenever I would put up some new images or make a sale, I would get a bunch of insincere pats on the back . . . and in turn I was expected to pat some backs myself. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Who has the time?  No, I don't go in for that either. I don't really get the point of that. Perhaps someone else might know this - does it have a bearing on image ranking to have lots of comments?

[Lastrega]

 

 

However, my real pet peeve it this quid-pro-quo nonsense we find on FAA. Whenever I would put up some new images or make a sale, I would get a bunch of insincere pats on the back . . . and in turn I was expected to pat some backs myself. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Who has the time?  No, I don't go in for that either. I don't really get the point of that. Perhaps someone else might know this - does it have a bearing on image ranking to have lots of comments?

 

 

As far as I know, giving compliments, voting at their competitions etc doesn't help your pictures advancing to the front and is a complete waste of time. The only thing that really helps moving forward is repeatedly being sold. I have a "bestseller" which has sold 10 times within a year and its found on page one. My other images for which I had many "pats on the back" and sometimes ended in the top 3 of the many competitons are hard to find  I have the impression that new images start their "career" as newbies way back at the end of the line. The only reason they creep forward (if not yet sold) is because new images have been added. Well, that's my impression (could be wrong though).

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

 

Thanks - it's just as well that it doesn't make a difference - I don't think I can be bothered with all the backslapping.

 

One thing I did notice was that my views went up when I had my little sale - which I assume is because people saw it on the announcements page.  

 

Perhaps the answer is to price something really cheaply and keep buying it yourself - so that you are regularly on the announcements page!  

 

(only joking).

[Lastrega]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing I did notice was that my views went up when I had my little sale - which I assume is because people saw it on the announcements page.  

 

Perhaps the answer is to price something really cheaply and keep buying it yourself - so that you are regularly on the announcements page!  

 

(only joking).

 

 

Hey, soon it's Christmas time. The time of year to give presents. ................... BUY MY STUFF !   

I buy yours. You buy mine and we both get an exquisite ranking ....... and grow rich while we're sleeping!  LOL 

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

 

Perfect!  We should also get in and buy John's before he puts his prices up.  

[Alex Todd]

I initally tweeted and facebooked as it seemed to be the way to get sales according to the fora, but I haven't done the social media stuff in a while yet just had 3 sales.

 

I also made a purchase of my own to see the quality and I was impressed. You don't get charged your cut though so I don't think it would make much difference if you kept buying your own stuff

 

They've just announced a place in the UK for POD as well.

[Ed Rooney]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One thing I did notice was that my views went up when I had my little sale - which I assume is because people saw it on the announcements page.  

 

Perhaps the answer is to price something really cheaply and keep buying it yourself - so that you are regularly on the announcements page!  

 

(only joking).

 

 

Hey, soon it's Christmas time. The time of year to give presents. ................... BUY MY STUFF !   

I buy yours. You buy mine and we both get an exquisite ranking ....... and grow rich while we're sleeping!  LOL 

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

Great, as long as I don't have to the Toys 'R' Us.

[Lastrega]

I initally tweeted and facebooked as it seemed to be the way to get sales according to the fora, but I haven't done the social media stuff in a while yet just had 3 sales.

 

I also made a purchase of my own to see the quality and I was impressed. 

 

 

Good to know - I have been wondering about the quality, but had assumed they wouldn't do very well if it was duff. 

I might upload niece and nephew portrait shots and get them printed off for family. 

 

I don't think they will count as Christmas presents though - unfortunately 

[John Mitchell]

Just had my first sale through FAA. One postcard where I got $1 commission.......

 

John.

 

You definitely should consider raising the price. There are people charging $15 for a single card.

 

My prices are considerably higher than the default ones and more than what most other people with similar types of images are charging. However, I think it might be time to experiment with giving them a major boost. After all, there is nothing to lose (I hope).

[John Mitchell]

 

John said " I really should consider raising my prices by the sounds of it..."

 In terms of pricing I left mine at the default rates on the grounds of 'they know bes't and I didnt want to discourage any sale. What's the consensus on this ?

 

Cheap prices means looking at cheap ordinary stuff. Higher prices evokes a feeling of dealing with quality, originality. Raising your prices might indeed lead to more sales in the fine art business. Not that I'm a fine art specialist, but I do know of one photographer (long time ago though) who sold a lot more after getting the advice of tripling his prices.

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

Your prices look quite similar to mine. How's business?

[John Mitchell]

 

 

 

John said " I really should consider raising my prices by the sounds of it..."

 In terms of pricing I left mine at the default rates on the grounds of 'they know bes't and I didnt want to discourage any sale. What's the consensus on this ?

 

Cheap prices means looking at cheap ordinary stuff. Higher prices evokes a feeling of dealing with quality, originality. Raising your prices might indeed lead to more sales in the fine art business. Not that I'm a fine art specialist, but I do know of one photographer (long time ago though) who sold a lot more after getting the advice of tripling his prices.

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

Your prices look quite similar to mine. How's business?

Could be better. 24 sales in about a year and a half. Apart from a widget I placed on my website, I don't do any marketing. It's also a very US orientated market with little demand for European subjects. Ah well, there's not that much extra work involved, so I'm OK with it. It's just a little side business.

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

Thanks for that. I have 20 sales in roughly the same time period. Not stellar, but definitely worthwhile. Most of my sales are in the USA. However, I've been getting more European sales lately.

[Martin P Wilson]

John, Phillipe

 

Do you find your sales are at the bottom end or more mid/upper size? I keep toying with the idea of prints but it doesn't seem worth the effort if the average sale is $5 for a greetings card!

 

I have sold the odd print directly but they have tended to be around 12x8in (30x20cm)

 

Martin

[John Mitchell]

John, Phillipe

 

Do you find your sales are at the bottom end or more mid/upper size? I keep toying with the idea of prints but it doesn't seem worth the effort if the average sale is $5 for a greetings card!

 

I have sold the odd print directly but they have tended to be around 12x8in (30x20cm)

 

Martin

 

Mixed sizes, but more mid/upper than small ones. You can set any markup you like for greeting cards. Something to keep in mind is that they are 5x7in cards that are suitable for framing. No doubt people do just that. I've only sold a couple of greeting cards in three years, though.

[Betty LaRue]

John, Phillipe

 

Do you find your sales are at the bottom end or more mid/upper size? I keep toying with the idea of prints but it doesn't seem worth the effort if the average sale is $5 for a greetings card!

 

I have sold the odd print directly but they have tended to be around 12x8in (30x20cm)

 

Martin

I just received a check for $324.18 from FAA. Everything from a phone case, card, and prints. It's not always like that, but more often than not.

[Martin P Wilson]

I will perhaps have to give FAA a try especially if I can find some pics that should have global appeal.

[John Mitchell]

I will perhaps have to give FAA a try especially if I can find some pics that should have global appeal.

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that FAA now has a printer in the UK, so perhaps that market is growing (?). Someone in Kent bought an image for an iPhone case from me this month. It was my first UK sale ever.

[Martin P Wilson]

Hopefully!