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Keeping Raw and jpegs together in PS

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Isn't fascinating how many different workflows people use! I can't answer the original question I am afraid. I have never experienced that problem. I import raw files from card to folders on my PC in year and month order. Also back up to a second drive at the same time. Then use LR collections to organise things and put rudimentary keywords in LR. Do most editing in LR, occasionally use PS for more advanced stuff and save straight back into Lightroom. Then export jpegs to specific folders depending on final use ( normally organised by year and month). I can see in LR if a file is edited or not. Never even considered bridge! In the last few months I now also keyword in keyword perfect that puts all the keywords in the JPEG iptc fields, so can also search for my images using keyword perfect library search.

There must be an optimum method out there.....not sure I have found it though!


Jules, it sounds like you have a great workflow.  Since I am so new to Lightroom, I haven't felt that great confidence in it, yet. So I have a foot in both worlds.   And to the other poster, as far as developing in ACR, yes, I could, but I think the tools are easier to use in LR and I think the noise control is exceptional there, also.  Maybe it is my imagination, lol!

 I don't do a lot in Bridge, but I do straighten and crop there, and reduce file size if I feel an image needs more sharpening by doing that.  I also love the spot healing tool.  Also I do some layer work on a few images.  So I'm not at a point where I want to do everything in LR.  Maybe I need to learn to use ACR better, but I have trouble with some of the tools. LR is easier.


I will admit to knowing next to nothing about the file organization in LR.  That part is confusing.  Most of the time when LR asks to back up my files, I say NO. :)  Where do the backups go?  Am I soon going to have a computer bogged down by many copies of files?

And once I keyword and save, how the heck does the organization help me?  Find a certain file easier than any other way?  Does it find one image or a whole folder?  Where do I do a search from?  See what I mean?  I know next to nothing.


That technical stuff resides in the left brain, the analytical part.  That is about 1/10th of my brain, 9/10s is creative, lol!  Although I am great in organizing things at home. :) But that is visual, must be a bridge to the creative side. {the brown pants go next to the tan pants, the grey pants go next to the black pants, the skillets are grouped together in one drawer, the pans with lids in another...:) )  Although organizing things and then keeping things organized is another story....


You guys are the best, if I must say so.  You've gone the extra mile in trying to figure out just what I want and how to get there.  I appreciate it.


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Betty - let me share my workflow...it might be helpful since you are new to Lightroom (and it might give you ideas).


I import into Lightroom - the images go into a specified folder from Lightroom.


I cull the images I don't want from the shoot by deleting.  Lightroom prompts to either delete them from the catalog or from the hard drive altogether.  I delete from the catalog only.


When I process the images, and need to use Photoshop, I right click on the image and select edit in Photoshop.  This creates a second file - it's a TIFF file and it is "stacked" with the original file.  My Photoshop changes get saved to the TIFF file...when I close Photoshop, I am brought back to Lightroom.  The TIFF file is saved in the same folder where the imported image is.  I then collapse the stack (right click, stacking option).  This stacks the TIFF file on top of the original file so they are stored in the same place...essentially, your image library.


I go to the library module and I enter captions and keywords.  I also rename the files here to my own cataloging system (for RM files, I use RMXXXXXX).  The files are also renamed in the original folder you imported everything into.


Then, I rename the folder that the import was made into (the current date is the Lightroom default) to the following format - "YYYYMMDD Description of the shoot" within Lightroom. This allows me quick reference for copyright reasons. - right click on the folder you are working out of in the library.


I select all the images I want to export as a jpg and I export them to an upload folder I designate on my hard drive (right click - export).  From there, the images are uploaded to my website and to my agents.



I hope that helps

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Ed, that does help.  A lot.  I will copy/paste this information and print it out.  One of the things I've never done is right click anything, lol!


When you say you rename the RM files to RMXXXXXX,  I assume the RM in the string is for Right Managed, but what do the Xs represent?  Are those the file numbers provided by the camera?

YYYYMMDD...is the Ys for the year?  MM the month? Why two Ms?  DD for day?  why two Ds?


Before I try this system, I need to understand what the letters stand for, if they stand for anything.


I did get that when I finished a file in Photoshop it automatically saved back to LR.  Because I wanted the save to go to the folder on my desktop using my clumsy method, and I couldn't find it.  So I had to be careful to choose that folder in the drop down after that.  Essentually, I had the tiff in LR and also in the desktop folder.


One of the biggest problems I have with LR is how the heck to find a folder after I have worked on it.  The way I have done it is once I am done with a desktop folder, the images developed in LR and then PS, saved to the desktop, is I then copy to my external 2 hard drives and delete the folder from my desktop.  I don't leave them on the computer HD at all. Once I save them to the external HDs, I turn those HDs off.  I only turn them on to copy from desktop to HDs unless I want to look for something to develop for FineArtAmerica, or to look for a file I may have not developed the first time around.


If I do all the stuff in LR, how do you save folders to external HDs?  How do you keep too much information (all those folders of images) off your computer to keep it running fast and sleek?  And if you do save from LR to externals, how do you get those folders deleted from LR so they don't clog up the computer? 

LR, I assume, can't find that folder unless I somehow turn on the HDs and point LR to them, but I have had NO success at finding a previous folder once I've moved on to another.  And that is when the folder is still on my desktop and hasn't been moved yet to externals.  I've been working on a huge shoot from St. Croix, and sometimes I have a few images in two separate folders that I like to develop at the same time.  But once I import "folder #2", I can't find "folder #1" again.  In other words, I'm working back and forth in 2 folders.  LOL, at least I would like to!


Ahhh, questions, questions.


Oh, the dawn breaks. two Ms would be 01 for January and 12 for Dec.  DD is 01 for the first of the month or any other days like 10, 11, etc.  Sometimes I'm a bit dense. :)



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I think it may take too long to explain everything about lightroom on here.  My advice is buy or borrow a book, or look on adobe TV. Once you have cracked the fundamentals I am sure it will help you a lot. You need to look at the differences between catalogues, collections, folders etc.  Once you get it I think you will be pleasantly surprised.  I can't comprehend how I would do without LR, For importing, sorting, basic editing, and cataloging images I find it essential and quick.  I have a catalogue for each year (and any major shoots) and have 20000 images in them without any PC speed problems. I have two drives on my PC (one for programs to run on and one for storage that I need regular access to) plus external drives for backup and bulk storage.  As long as you move files around using LR, it will know where they are and you will find them (especially if you KWord them - but you can search by meta data too....e.g. date, camera, lens, etc etc).  I would offer to ring you and explain more but as I am in the UK and you are in the USA the cost would wipe out many an alamy sale price!  Good luck!  It is worth persevering with.

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My organizing is my madness...perhaps I spend too much time on it...


Ed, that does help.  A lot.  I will copy/paste this information and print it out.  One of the things I've never done is right click anything, lol!


When you say you rename the RM files to RMXXXXXX,  I assume the RM in the string is for Right Managed, but what do the Xs represent?  Are those the file numbers provided by the camera?

YYYYMMDD...is the Ys for the year?  MM the month? Why two Ms?  DD for day?  why two Ds?


RM = Rights Managed

RF = Royalty Free

The X represents numbers.  I figure I will never have shot more than 999,999 images in my lifetime LOL


YYYY is the year

MM is the month

DD is for the day


I keep track of everything on a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet.


So as an example...this image which I uploaded on Monday (via Live News)....



Is image number RM003796 (first column of my Excel Spreadsheet)


It lives in folder "20140120 Martin Luther King Marade" (second column of my Excel Spreadsheet).


The next column in the spreadsheet is the copyright number and the following columns represents whether or not it has been uploaded to an agent (and my website) and whether it was "uploaded", "accepted", "rejected" or if it is a "pass" at the agency I'm working with.


In Lightroom, the folder name is "20140120 Martin Luther King Marade".  Once I've finished working with the folder, I move it to an external RAID system drive (I use a Drobo)


I also have an Excel Spreadsheet for tracking usage.  I have a reference number (the reference number on the spreadsheet corresponds to the file name of the screenshot I took and have saved in a separate folder), the url of the website where I spotted the usage, the image number(s) associated with the usage, the agency where the image was used from, and the usage date.  I reconcile with sales reports to be sure they aren't infringements.



That's my workflow....what works for me may not work for everyone else but it's what I've found to work best for how I do things.  I will upload screen shots this evening when I get the chance so you can see what I'm doing.

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Here are some screen shots to help explain above...


When I import, it imports to the default folder I've set up.  I work the image from the folder (in this case 2014-01-20) which is on my desktop.




Once I'm done working on the image, I do all the keywording, name changing, etc. (described above) and I change the name of the folder to the date and the description of the photo shoot (20140120 Shoot Description) - just right click and select rename.  When I'm ready to archive the image to my Drobo/external drive, I simply drag the folder down to the letter name of the drive.  This is a small screenshot of what my library looks like....




You can see this way, images are sorted by year, month, day in the library.  I also catalog the images via Microsoft Excel in this fashion...




The reason I do it this way is it's not reasonable for me to copyright images before publication - so I have a set timeframe based on the published image grace period.  Each folder is the name of the collection I file with the copyright office.  Each date is the "first publication date" listed with the copyright office.


This makes tracking things easy for me.


The other benefit is you still have the search tools available in Lightroom - since the keywords, caption, and title to the image are available, I can search just like you can in bridge.  I also have the benefit of a file system that is still existent....


Here's what it looks like in Windows Explorer (I don't know what the Mac equivalent is)





...and when I open the folder on my Drobo/External Drive, all of my images (including the culled images) are available....and I can tell which ones were "first published"/keepers that were submitted because they are re-named in the folder to my naming convention





P.S. - I forgot to add that if I have a model release or property release, it is scanned into a jpg image and added to the image catalog in Lightroom (which also adds it to the folder on the computer and keeps everything in one place).

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Ed, you have an amazing system.  I don't have those kind of skills to set up spreadsheets and such, nor any software to do it. You should see what I submit to DACS, you'd be embarassed for me.   But I'm getting a glimmer of how a LR catalogue system would be very beneficial.  I think I can figure that out with the tips you've given, it just might take me awhile.


Oh, and when I said I didn't know what the Mac finder was...I do know what the "Finder" is on my desktop, I use it constantly.  The addition of "Mac" in front of the word "Finder" made me think there was something separate I didn't know about!  DUH on my part.


I'll take notes on how you've set up your folders with dates and names.  I've been so lost with knowing what to do.  Like I said...I am creative, not technical.  I have friends who are amazed with what I do with my FAA work, which for me comes easy.  Yet, what you do will be hard for me.  Different strokes, and all that rot, lol!


Thank you so much, Ed!


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