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Slide Damage?

Martin L

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Martin L Forum regular

Martin L

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Just digitising some old Kodachrome slides. First digitisation of such old slides.

When on the PC I just noticed that at 100% there are some artifacts that look like noise on the image. However on closer inspection they look like crystals as they are angular rather than normal fungi type threads (they have been cleaned with cloth and isopropyl and not steel wool :) )

It looks like some kind of breakdown of the emulsion as the surface looks kind of pitted as well.

 

So:

 

a) Is this normal and expected for slides about 40 years old and therefore acceptable as just part of normal deterioration?

b) Can they be recovered?

c) Or are they fooked?

d) Does it matter?

 

 

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

Harry Harrison

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1 hour ago, Martin L said:

I found an LED Slide Viewer for £3 in a charity shop

If you're getting good results then that's great of course but LEDs can be problematic for slide copying, unless of course they have been designed specifically with that in mind, have a CRI of over 95, and preferably a good value for R9 as well, though the latter is rarely specified. Lots about this online, and recent Iphones & Ipads are also very good in fact, though not very bright.

 

Cinestill have just released a very handy looking LED light source, and very reasonably priced, it's been found to be very good by those that take these things seriously but I think it will be some time before it's available easily in the UK, already shipping in the US & Europe though.

 

https://cinestillfilm.com/collections/holiday-deals/products/cs-litecamera-scanning-light-source-1

 

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Martin L Forum regular

Martin L

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29 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

If you're getting good results then that's great of course but LEDs can be problematic for slide copying, unless of course they have been designed specifically with that in mind, have a CRI of over 95, and preferably a good value for R9 as well, though the latter is rarely specified. Lots about this online, and recent Iphones & Ipads are also very good in fact, though not very bright.

 

Cinestill have just released a very handy looking LED light source, and very reasonably priced, it's been found to be very good by those that take these things seriously but I think it will be some time before it's available easily in the UK, already shipping in the US & Europe though.

 

https://cinestillfilm.com/collections/holiday-deals/products/cs-litecamera-scanning-light-source-1

 

Went down the ipad route but it wasn't bright enough showing problems similar to what I posted.

The current setup is the best I have tried so far and seems to do the do, comparable in colours to the ipad scans. So if ipads are good for colour separation then I'm on a winner.

I don't tend to get too hung up on what is 'technically' the best (probably why I still use a 10 year old Canon 7D :) )

 

 

 

 

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M.Chapman Forum regular

M.Chapman

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51 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

If you're getting good results then that's great of course but LEDs can be problematic for slide copying, unless of course they have been designed specifically with that in mind, have a CRI of over 95, and preferably a good value for R9 as well, though the latter is rarely specified. Lots about this online, and recent Iphones & Ipads are also very good in fact, though not very bright.

 

Cinestill have just released a very handy looking LED light source, and very reasonably priced, it's been found to be very good by those that take these things seriously but I think it will be some time before it's available easily in the UK, already shipping in the US & Europe though.

 

https://cinestillfilm.com/collections/holiday-deals/products/cs-litecamera-scanning-light-source-1

 

Hi Harry,

 

Yes, retina iPhones and iPads can make useful light sources, (as you know that's what I use). But it's worth adding that it's essential to add an extra diffuser (e.g opal perspex) or to make sure there's a decent standoff between transparency so that the iphone/ipad pixels are massively out of focus. If not, the digitised image will show coloured fringes/patches due to moiré patterns formed between camera sensor and ipad/iphone sensors. I found the spectral characteristics of the iPhone/iPad to be a near perfect match with Fuji Velvia film and my Lumix camera sensor. The main disadvantages are cost (if you don't already have an iPhone or iPad to use), and the relatively low brightness.

 

That Cinestillfilm lightbox looks good value (although I notice it doesn't appear to come with a power supply). It would be very interesting to run my "spectral/colour calibration" on one.

 

Mark

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

Harry Harrison

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22 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

although I notice it doesn't appear to come with a power supply

No battery, just standard USB 5V input, so not needed. Richard Karash has tested it and likes it. Finds the different colour temperatures and particularly the 6500º setting is useful for colour negative, Ektar in particular. I'd like one but I wonder if there will be a UK distributor, Speed Graphic distribute Valoi but no sign of it there last time I looked.

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

Harry Harrison

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30 minutes ago, Martin L said:

I don't tend to get too hung up on what is 'technically' the best (probably why I still use a 10 year old Canon 7D

Nothing wrong with the 7D, at least at normal ISOs, I've got one also though I hardly ever use my Canons now, they need to go I suppose. Yes, no point making the perfect the enemy of the good but if after you've scanned a few more and certain colours are not living up to expectations then the LED may be the problem.

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Martin L Forum regular

Martin L

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14 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Nothing wrong with the 7D, at least at normal ISOs, 

Too true. It's not great at much higher than 400 iso. You can go higher if you like to turn your images into oil paintings.

I'll keep an eye on the colours but sometimes it's hard to judge if you haven't got a comparison. As I said it's seems better than other methods including the iPad.

I might have to invest in one of those cinestill light boxes as long as it's no more than £3.

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M.Chapman Forum regular

M.Chapman

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39 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

No battery, just standard USB 5V input, so not needed.

Needs a USB C 1.6A power supply (for max brightness). Fine if you've already got one, but small additional cost if you haven't. Actually it's a good thing it comes without PSU and uses the USB C standard, better for the planet. :)

 

Mark

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M.Chapman Forum regular

M.Chapman

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1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

I spoke too soon:

 

https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/light_panels/valoi___cinestill_cslite/30761_p.html

 

(bought one)

Excellent. Let me know how you get on with it or if you need a Lumariver profile from your IT8 target.:)

 

Looks like it needs 1.6A USB A PSU (not USB C - I was mistaken - picture shows a USB A style connector).

 

Mark

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

Harry Harrison

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6 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

Hmmm?

'Brexit Benefit' presumably, it would have been difficult to predict how much I would have finally paid for it had I ordered it direct from the Cinestill in the US or even the official European distributor,  Kamerastore, where it is priced at €41.50 so considering the small margins on a relatively cheap item I'm very pleased that Speed Graphic are offering it at that price.

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geogphotos Forum regular

geogphotos

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Harry, I am using an old Jessops LP812 with camera and Nikon 35mm slide/neg holders ( not actually done any negs as yet).  I also occsionally use this lightbox with camera on a tripod for 120mm and magic lantern slides.

 

Should I get one of these for the temperature options and better even brightness? Or not really necessary for Nikon ES1 and ES2?

 

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

Harry Harrison

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1 minute ago, geogphotos said:

Should I get one of these for the temperature options and better even brightness? Or not really necessary for Nikon ES1 and ES2?

I think that you're doing absolutely fine having seen quite a few of your scans when you've posted them on here. There are advantages in having a bright, colour consistent light source, especially when it's relatively affordable as this one seems to be, but the different colour temperatures (I think) are mainly pitched at scanning colour negatives at the 6500º 'blue' end where there are advantages to counter the orange mask to a certain extent. It's right for me as I want something small to build it into something I'm making so that I I've got a compact 'ready to go' setup.

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

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On 14/12/2022 at 09:10, geogphotos said:

Thanks Harry, much appreciated. 

Just a few rough figures from 30 minutes playing with it, it's a record for me anyway:

 

I don't use the Nikon ES-1 normally but I can fit it on to my 55mm Micro-Nikkor without any extra tubes so I've used that for my testing on a Canon 5DMk2 full frame (I normally use Fuji X-T2 APS-C), aperture set to f8 and 200 ISO. The camera doesn't have to be on a copy stand with the ES-1 but my setup uses one so that's what I've done, the slide was about 3" above the light panel, and of course in this setup the panel is guaranteed to be square to the lens axis. Again it doesn't have to be precisely square with the ES-1 but it might as well be close.

 

The CS-Lite is 175mm x 120mm and the illuminated area is 149mm x 94mm, so just a bit too narrow to think of doing uncropped 5"x4". The surface of the lit area has a pure white matt frosted appearance. It's rated as >95 CRI (Colour Rendering Index) which really should be fine, 99 CRI panels are super expensive. There is a 1/4" tripod thread at the centre of one of the long sides (useful perhaps for mounting on a table tripod, or even for using as a Macro light source). The captive USB lead is just under 2m long and the control switch is about 45 cms from the body on that lead. It needs a 1.6 Amp 5V USB 'A' power source for full brightness. Standard Iphone power plugs are 1A (5W) but Ipad power plugs like the A1357 or A1401 are 2 Amp (10W) and easily available for less that £10, I'm using an A1357. They say that 5W power plug means it will still work fine but it will be half as bright though I haven't tested this. Someone who has used it a lot says it doesn't get hot if just left on all day, this is not true of some of the other larger panels available though they may be brighter still. It comes with a collimating sheet and a couple of basic black masks for masking off the panel for copying different formats

 

Ian, your Jessops panel was designed for viewing slides so probably isn't that bright, the CS-Lite would be way too bright for doing that. My Hancocks lightbox is also designed for viewing slides and isn't bright either. So with the ES-1 and the Hancocks lightbox I'm getting 1/2 sec @ f8 on an average slide exposing almost to the right.

 

Switch to the CS-Lite set to 5600º K (daylight) - 1/20 sec @ f8

 

Add the collimating sheet - 1/30 sec @ f8 so then maybe around 3 to 4 stops brighter than a slide viewing panel, or probably an Ipad or Iphone.

 

The collimating sheet is an unassuming very thin sheet of clear textured plastic, it has to be fitted shiny side up, it makes the panel about 2/3 stop brighter. I haven't seen enough to know if it changes the quality of the scan for better or for worse, if at all.

 

Although I don't use the ES-1 it seems to me that with a bright even light source such as this the diffuser screen is unnecessary. It can be removed carefully by undoing the two Phillip's screws and re-attaching the slide spring assembly and spacer, the screws will screw in through the main frame and just stick out the other side a bit. This gives you around another 1.5 to 2 stops to play with.

 

So, with the ES-1 diffuser removed I get 1/80 sec @ f8, add the collimator sheet and I'm maxing out at around 1/100 to 1/125 sec @ f8.

 

The 6500ºK setting is virtually the same brightness, the 3200ºK setting is about 1/3 stop less bright.

 

I like it a lot so far.

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M.Chapman Forum regular

M.Chapman

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Hi Harry,

 

Sounds quite good so far. But a couple of questions.

 

2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

The CS-Lite is 175mm x 120mm and the illuminated area is 149mm x 94mm, so just a bit too narrow to think of doing uncropped 5"x4". The surface of the lit area has a pure white matt frosted appearance.

 

Does it appear to have any texture? Or is it more like opal perspex? If it's got texture then presumably a slide couldn't simply be placed on the illuminated area and then photographed because the texture would appear in the the digitised image so some standoff would be required to ensure the texture is out of focus?

 

2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

The collimating sheet is an unassuming very thin sheet of clear textured plastic, it has to be fitted shiny side up, it makes the panel about 2/3 stop brighter. I haven't seen enough to know if it changes the quality of the scan for better or for worse, if at all.

Same questions apply to that sheet too. Also, does the sheet look like a Fresnel lens (concentric rings? I tried an A4 plastic Fresnel lens on my iPad as a light source but it didn't give any benefit, so (as you may recall) I currently just use an iPad + sheet of opal perspex (to blur the pixels of the retina display) + sheet of glass on top (to provide a durable, static free surface to lay slides on directly without fear of scratching.  Laying slides directly on the surface gives a good diffuse illumination which minimises the visibility of scratches any dust remaining on the slide. I do have to be sure to keep the glass clean though as its surface is within the depth of focus.

 

Digitised old Velvia slides are some of my best POD sellers. I think folks must still like the rendering of landscape photos taken on Velvia. Either that, or I was a better photographer in those days!

 

Mark

 

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Harry Harrison Forum regular

Harry Harrison

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1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

Does it appear to have any texture?

Yes, but quite fine, similar to the ground glass on a 5"x4". I'm going to see how close you can get to it before anything shows up, and also I don't know how the LEDs are arranged, the Negative Supply Basic (95 & 99) have opposing rows of 12 LEDs down the long side and some kind of prism sandwich to distribute the light, they're quite open about what they call 'side diffusion'. The 'Pro' version has an LED array and is much brighter (more LEDs). Not sure what the CS-Lite is as yet.

 

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

Same questions apply to that sheet too. Also, does the sheet look like a Fresnel lens (concentric rings?

No, not fresnel, no concentric rings, not sure what it is at the moment. I'll be looking at that more closely as well.

 

Just tried it on the Fuji for a 35mm slide, without the ES-1, 1/250 sec @ f8, 200 ISO. Very useful.

Edited by Harry Harrison
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