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Another advantage of electronic over optical viewfinders is that EVFs are much safer for the eyes when shooting into the sun.

 

I still prefer optical viewfinders but am used to electronic now as well.  When switching from electronic to optical it is important to remember that it is no longer wysiwyg and to use the meter. I've forgotten to do that a few times.

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For me a major, and in fact unanticipated advantage is the ability to review images through the viewfinder rather than peer at the back of the camera in full daylight. which for me also negates the need for reading glasses. If I ever use the Canons that is what I miss the most, together with perhaps the wysiwyg exposure preview. Since I'm on Fuji APS-C I'm also a user of 'legacy' film era lenses via adapters, some very useful and high quality combinations made easy with the 'focus assist' options.

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I was hesitant to change at first. However, can't say that I miss optical viewfinders. The latest EVF's are superior in almost every respect. Also, the SLR design served its purpose well, but it is clumsy and more prone to mechanical problems than mirrorless. However, the big grips on DSLR's were much more comfortable than those on the Sony mirrorless cameras that I now use. I do miss those. Otherwise no regrets.

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I got rid of my Canon FF DSLR gear a while back and bought an RX10mk4 to accompany my little RX100mk3 as my total kit, apart from tripods and a single flash gun.
Checking lightroom stats I found I had taken more images with a previous RX10 which I owned than I had with my 5D's or 6D's.
The main reason wa ssimply that I had taken my RX10 out more than the heavy cameras and lenses.
With the returns on stock images it seems that we shouldn't be investing big money in gear to get little return, and if I just shoot for pleasure or personal projects then I don't need big, heavy, expensive kit.
Now I just need to start travelling again and take more pictures!

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For those of you using Sony RX cameras: how do you like the ergonomics of the buttons and the menus?

 

I've been an Olympus and Canon user for many years. The buttons were totally intuitive on both.

 

I bought a Sony NEX-6 when it came out. I hated it. The buttons and the menus were totally non-intuitive. Some critical settings took some fumbling around to find. Then I would quickly forget where they were, so next time I needed them, it was all the fumbling again...

 

GI

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Yes, GI, the menus on the little Sonys are far too complex. And buttons? I have a chronic condition called essential tremor or familiar tremor; I vibrate. My solution is not to go dancing around through the menu. 

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One of the EVF features I like on my Lumix G7 is the "zebra" over-exposure warning which highlights areas that risk being blown out so I can adjust the expoure compensation if needed. However, it's a shame it seems to based on the rendered "jpg" values, so it tends to err too much on the safe side when shooting in RAW. Not sure if all cameras work that way?

 

Mark

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2 hours ago, giphotostock said:

For those of you using Sony RX cameras: how do you like the ergonomics of the buttons and the menus?

 

I don't like the controls much. I don't know whether it's just that I'm used to the Nikons and don't have to think about them any more, but the Sony are also a bit more fiddly and irritating. As I say, it may just be about getting used to them but it's going to take a while.

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I carry an RX100 when I don’t expect to be using my Nikon’s. Any camera where adjustments are predominately made via menu’s can be slow to operate, although I have shot 2 protests I came across with it. They were fairly static though. It is far better than no camera. 

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1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

One of the EVF features I like on my Lumix G7 is the "zebra" over-exposure warning which highlights areas that risk being blown out so I can adjust the expoure compensation if needed. However, it's a shame it seems to based on the rendered "jpg" values, so it tends to err too much on the safe side when shooting in RAW. Not sure if all cameras work that way?

Certainly get the option for a flashing highlight warning on the Fujis, and on the Canons, probably all brands. Although based on the jpeg I too find it very useful, unless the scene is very flat I usually try to get into that zone a` bit to extract maximum shadow details from the RAW later.

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1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

One of the EVF features I like on my Lumix G7 is the "zebra" over-exposure warning which highlights areas that risk being blown out so I can adjust the expoure compensation if needed. However, it's a shame it seems to based on the rendered "jpg" values, so it tends to err too much on the safe side when shooting in RAW. Not sure if all cameras work that way?

 

Mark


Logically that is the only way it could work. The camera doesn’t know what software you will use to convert the raw image so it gives you its own interpretation based on an in-camera profile used to create a jpeg. It is the same with the camera histogram. When you know your camera and its capabilities, you can expose accordingly. The important thing for me is not to totally blow out highlights so if in doubt I will knock the exposure down a stop or two but I still aim to expose to the right as much as possible. I never use these exposure aids when shooting raw stills. 

Edited by MDM
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3 hours ago, giphotostock said:

For those of you using Sony RX cameras: how do you like the ergonomics of the buttons and the menus?

 

I've been an Olympus and Canon user for many years. The buttons were totally intuitive on both.

 

I bought a Sony NEX-6 when it came out. I hated it. The buttons and the menus were totally non-intuitive. Some critical settings took some fumbling around to find. Then I would quickly forget where they were, so next time I needed them, it was all the fumbling again...

 

GI


As Edo and Phil say, the controls are very fiddly and the menus vast. However, given the size of these cameras and the quality of the images, they are mini-miracles of modern technology. The trick is to spend time learning the various features and then customising the controls so you have minimal adjustments to make when out and about. The cameras are highly customisable to personal requirements. 

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I can't talk for the RX series cameras. As for the A7iii, yes the menus are vast. However, the buttons on the camera are highly customisable so I've set up the camera so that I don't need to dive into the menus much. I'm ok with the grip, but I can understand that some people don't like it because it's so small. I love that the cameras are so small and lightweight though.

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1 hour ago, MDM said:


Logically that is the only way it could work. The camera doesn’t know what software you will use to convert the raw image so it gives you its own interpretation based on an in-camera profile used to create a jpeg. It is the same with the camera histogram. When you know your camera and its capabilities, you can expose accordingly. The important thing for me is not to totally blow out highlights so if in doubt I will knock the exposure down a stop or two but I still aim to expose to the right as much as possible. I never use these exposure aids when shooting raw stills. 

It would be quite straightforward for the camera to indicate if the R,G or B RAW A/D values have actually clipped or not. Take a look at what RAW Digger software does. If the A/D values are clipped, then true recovery of highlights, in whatever software package is being used, becomes problematic. I think it would be useful if the camera showed both. e.g. white flasing zebra zone = jpg clipping warning, which turns to red a flashing zebra zone if the RAW R,G or B A/D channel is actually clipped. Understanding when A/D clipping actually starts allows ETTR to be more fully exploited. However if the any of the A/D values are close to clipping, any subsequent WB adjustment typically has to be done more carefully.

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
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1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

It would be quite straightforward for the camera to indicate if the R,G or B RAW A/D values have actually clipped or not. Take a look at what RAW Digger software does. If the A/D values are clipped, then true recovery of highlights, in whatever software package is being used, becomes problematic. I think it would be useful if the camera showed both. e.g. white flasing zebra zone = jpg clipping warning, which turns to red a flashing zebra zone if the RAW R,G or B A/D channel is actually clipped. Understanding when A/D clipping actually starts allows ETTR to be more fully exploited. However if the any of the A/D values are close to clipping, any subsequent WB adjustment typically has to be done more carefully.

 

Mark

 

I'll take your word for it Mark. I'm coping well without these in-camera exposure indicators anyway as the highlight recovery on the Nikons I use is exceptional. 

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On 31/08/2021 at 08:16, giphotostock said:

For those of you using Sony RX cameras: how do you like the ergonomics of the buttons and the menus?

 

I've been an Olympus and Canon user for many years. The buttons were totally intuitive on both.

 

I bought a Sony NEX-6 when it came out. I hated it. The buttons and the menus were totally non-intuitive. Some critical settings took some fumbling around to find. Then I would quickly forget where they were, so next time I needed them, it was all the fumbling again...

 

GI

The little RX 100 is too slippy, even with a grip and there are very few buttons, but I find them ok, except I keep promising to put a blob of something on the shutter button as I keep going for the on/off swith to shoot. I also defocus the viewfinder quite a lot and have to keep adjusting the tiny lever.
the RX 10 is fine but I don't use back button focus as I always did with my canon cameras. 

The menus are vast and although many buttons can be preset with your own options, my memory can't and I soon forget what I set on different buttons.
I also don't like the electroic manual focus which I find difficult to get right with night sky photography.
I still prefer the RX 10 to my FF canons and actually take it out with me more due to its lack of weight and the fact that I can sling it under my jacket easily.
The RX10 goes in my bag or pocket all the time and I have had great reults using the timelapse and remote shooting options. It's handy atop a monopod in the air with control by phone on a big screen in my spare hand.

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On 01/09/2021 at 19:34, mickfly said:

The little RX 100 is too slippy, even with a grip and there are very few buttons, but I find them ok, except I keep promising to put a blob of something on the shutter button as I keep going for the on/off swith to shoot. I also defocus the viewfinder quite a lot and have to keep adjusting the tiny lever.
the RX 10 is fine but I don't use back button focus as I always did with my canon cameras. 

The menus are vast and although many buttons can be preset with your own options, my memory can't and I soon forget what I set on different buttons.
I also don't like the electroic manual focus which I find difficult to get right with night sky photography.
I still prefer the RX 10 to my FF canons and actually take it out with me more due to its lack of weight and the fact that I can sling it under my jacket easily.
The RX10 goes in my bag or pocket all the time and I have had great reults using the timelapse and remote shooting options. It's handy atop a monopod in the air with control by phone on a big screen in my spare hand.

Also a fan of the Rx10 for its weight yet still a decent grip

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On 31/08/2021 at 10:36, sb photos said:

I carry an RX100 when I don’t expect to be using my Nikon’s. Any camera where adjustments are predominately made via menu’s can be slow to operate, although I have shot 2 protests I came across with it. They were fairly static though. It is far better than no camera. 

 

I set all my Sony's, (sounds as if I have a lot) - (only 6 bodies), up when I got them and all are set on manual now. Only use "Function" (Fn) button if I want to change anything that is not under any wheel or other button on the body.

 

Allan

 

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On 31/08/2021 at 08:16, giphotostock said:

For those of you using Sony RX cameras: how do you like the ergonomics of the buttons and the menus?

 

I've been an Olympus and Canon user for many years. The buttons were totally intuitive on both.

 

I bought a Sony NEX-6 when it came out. I hated it. The buttons and the menus were totally non-intuitive. Some critical settings took some fumbling around to find. Then I would quickly forget where they were, so next time I needed them, it was all the fumbling again...

 

GI

 

You can program some of the buttons on the Sony a6500.  I hardly ever look at the menus now that I have the camera set to my liking, probably only to format the memory card.  The features that you need to use a lot are immediately to hand (or finger) e.g. exposure compensation, or in my case manual focal lens focal length for the in body shake reduction. Further, due to the excellent EVF, you don't have to take the camera away from your eye when making adjustments.

 

I am a long term Canon DSLR user, 20D, 450D, 5D and I still have a Canon 5DII, but rarely use it now, and when I do, I struggle to remember how to use the thing. 

 

Have to agree with Edo that the compactness of the smaller mirrorless models  introduces you to a new world of discreet photography.

Edited by Bryan
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On 05/09/2021 at 00:49, Bryan said:

 

You can program some of the buttons on the Sony a6500.  I hardly ever look at the menus now that I have the camera set to my liking, probably only to format the memory card.  The features that you need to use a lot are immediately to hand (or finger) e.g. exposure compensation, or in my case manual focal lens focal length for the in body shake reduction. Further, due to the excellent EVF, you don't have to take the camera away from your eye when making adjustments.

 

I am a long term Canon DSLR user, 20D, 450D, 5D and I still have a Canon 5DII, but rarely use it now, and when I do, I struggle to remember how to use the thing. 

 

Have to agree with Edo that the compactness of the smaller mirrorless models  introduces you to a new world of discreet photography.

Bryan and the rest of the folks - thanks for your responses.

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Had a look at going Mirrorless and lenses until I looked at the price as I do need to upgrade at some stage Still got a lot to learn Can't justify the cost as not in business and only as a hobby Learning a lot from being in the forum and looking what others are saying 

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Have always been mirrorless. Started with a Panasonic Lumix G7, then a G80, now I use full frame Lumix S1 which I love, though it is a lot heavier.

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7 hours ago, Alexander Hog said:

Had a look at going Mirrorless and lenses until I looked at the price as I do need to upgrade at some stage Still got a lot to learn Can't justify the cost as not in business and only as a hobby Learning a lot from being in the forum and looking what others are saying 

 

What kit have you got at the moment? It is impossible to make informed suggestions as to whether it is worthwhile going mirrorless without knowing that. The two big issues are weight and the fact that Nikon and Canon are heading in a mirrorless direction so there is a future-proofing consideration if investing in new kit.

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1 hour ago, Alexander Hog said:

 

My apologies for not mentioning that I have the Canon 700D crop sensor Most lenses I have (four) APS-C lenses and 2 L lenses (100mm Macro and 100-400mm)

 

I think sticking with what you have is sensible unless you have a very good reason to go mirrorless (weight or taking up video mainly). The weight advantage is only significant for some lenses - the telephotos do not differ a lot between DSLR and mirrorless within the same system. So the Nikon mirrorless are very light with the 24-70 f4 lens but stick a 70-200 on one  and there is little difference. between that and a DSLR with the same lens. Canon seem to be more expensive for their newer mirrorless bodies and lenses as well in comparison to equivalent Nikon and Sony gear. 

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