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1 hour ago, Sally R said:

 

I love these Gen. It looks so peaceful and serene.

 

I was a beautiful peaceful Outback location.

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6 hours ago, gvallee said:

I was a beautiful peaceful Outback location.

 

Yes, I googled Lake Dunn as I am always curious where places are on the map. I can see it is fairly remote away from the main highways. My Dad is from the Eastern Goldfields here in WA and some of the more remote parts of that is as remote as I've been. One day I will get out to more of Australia.

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52 minutes ago, Sally R said:

 

Yes, I googled Lake Dunn as I am always curious where places are on the map. I can see it is fairly remote away from the main highways. My Dad is from the Eastern Goldfields here in WA and some of the more remote parts of that is as remote as I've been. One day I will get out to more of Australia.

 

It is on the Aramac sculptures trail, a genius idea to bring tourism to remote areas of the Outback. Only the road from Aramac to Lake Dunn is 2WD, the rest of the loop is 4WD. Sculptures are out of this world for creativity. I have shots of almost all of them. Unfortunately, none will be uploaded to Alamy.

 

I find it a real pity that there has been a number of clever initiatives like murals, silos trail, water tank art, to attract tourism far from the beaten track in struggling remote communities. I am quite sure that any publicity is very welcome by these small rural forsaken towns. But no! They can't be uploaded to Alamy. A real shame after such brilliant initiatives.

 

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Have only been shooting stock when I am out shooting jobs and the other day I had a portrait to do in Georgetown, in Washington DC at this spot along the C&O Canal.  Not the best light but a pretty scene.

 

usa-washington-dc-georgetown-old-homes-along-the-c-o-canal-towpath-now-a-walkway-2G2DY97.jpg

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5 hours ago, gvallee said:

It is on the Aramac sculptures trail, a genius idea to bring tourism to remote areas of the Outback. Only the road from Aramac to Lake Dunn is 2WD, the rest of the loop is 4WD. Sculptures are out of this world for creativity. I have shots of almost all of them. Unfortunately, none will be uploaded to Alamy.

 

I find it a real pity that there has been a number of clever initiatives like murals, silos trail, water tank art, to attract tourism far from the beaten track in struggling remote communities. I am quite sure that any publicity is very welcome by these small rural forsaken towns. But no! They can't be uploaded to Alamy. A real shame after such brilliant initiatives.

 

 

That's good to know Gen if I ever go up that way. It's great seeing those local initiatives that are part of the community. Up till now I've photographed and uploaded some general scenes with sculptures and murals but in context and editorial only as advised by Alamy. I also have researched each image to find out the name of the artist and include it in the caption and keywords. However, there seems to be more uncertainty now as to what can be included.

 

This prompted me to investigate the issue further, including in an Australian context. Tonight I read advice to street photographers on the Arts Law Centre of Australia website as follows:

 

Photography and the arts 

Sculptures, monuments and artwork may be protected by copyright. Unless an exception applies, you need permission from the copyright owner of the work. Exceptions to this general rule are found in the Copyright Act. For example, photographing and publishing a photograph of a sculpture or work of artistic craftsmanship that is permanently situated in a public place, or in premises open to the public, does not infringe copyright (s.65). This does not apply to other public art, such as murals. If the public place is a gallery or museum, remember that your rights to photograph may be limited by the conditions of admission on your ticket. As previously discussed, you can also take pictures of buildings without infringing copyright.

 

from https://www.artslaw.com.au/information-sheet/street-photographers-rights/

 

So the sculptures on the Aramac trail may be ok according to the above. I have some images with sculptures but more of concern to me now are the 9 I have with murals. I know I am about to leave, but I just emailed Alamy to advise of those 9 images and whether they can delete them (very unlikely it will be an issue in my remaining 43 days here, but I thought I'd suggest their removal at least anyway).

 

I think it demonstrates that it is always good to look into the detail of local copyright infringement laws depending on the country of origin for images uploaded. It is still not 100% clear to me if editorial stock photography use might be ok for murals (in context) here in Australia, or perhaps only editorial use for non-monetary gain purposes such as a blog. I'd need to investigate further. Anyway, sorry for that diversion on the Favourite Uploads thread but I just thought that might be of interest, and it might mean the Aramac sculptures are ok in an Australian context.

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8 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

That's good to know Gen if I ever go up that way. It's great seeing those local initiatives that are part of the community. Up till now I've photographed and uploaded some general scenes with sculptures and murals but in context and editorial only as advised by Alamy. I also have researched each image to find out the name of the artist and include it in the caption and keywords. However, there seems to be more uncertainty now as to what can be included.

 

This prompted me to investigate the issue further, including in an Australian context. Tonight I read advice to street photographers on the Arts Law Centre of Australia website as follows:

 

Photography and the arts 

Sculptures, monuments and artwork may be protected by copyright. Unless an exception applies, you need permission from the copyright owner of the work. Exceptions to this general rule are found in the Copyright Act. For example, photographing and publishing a photograph of a sculpture or work of artistic craftsmanship that is permanently situated in a public place, or in premises open to the public, does not infringe copyright (s.65). This does not apply to other public art, such as murals. If the public place is a gallery or museum, remember that your rights to photograph may be limited by the conditions of admission on your ticket. As previously discussed, you can also take pictures of buildings without infringing copyright.

 

from https://www.artslaw.com.au/information-sheet/street-photographers-rights/

 

So the sculptures on the Aramac trail may be ok according to the above. I have some images with sculptures but more of concern to me now are the 9 I have with murals. I know I am about to leave, but I just emailed Alamy to advise of those 9 images and whether they can delete them (very unlikely it will be an issue in my remaining 43 days here, but I thought I'd suggest their removal at least anyway).

 

I think it demonstrates that it is always good to look into the detail of local copyright infringement laws depending on the country of origin for images uploaded. It is still not 100% clear to me if editorial stock photography use might be ok for murals (in context) here in Australia, or perhaps only editorial use for non-monetary gain purposes such as a blog. I'd need to investigate further. Anyway, sorry for that diversion on the Favourite Uploads thread but I just thought that might be of interest, and it might mean the Aramac sculptures are ok in an Australian context.

 

Thank you so much for taking time to research this Sally. I am now wondering if Alamy's rule of 'must be in context' overrules the Australian Law which says it's OK to sell photos of sculptures commercially. So the beautiful (most of them anyway) silo art and water tanks art are out. Shame.

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1 hour ago, gvallee said:

Thank you so much for taking time to research this Sally. I am now wondering if Alamy's rule of 'must be in context' overrules the Australian Law which says it's OK to sell photos of sculptures commercially. So the beautiful (most of them anyway) silo art and water tanks art are out. Shame.

 

I really don't know for sure whether sculptures 'in context' would be ok commercially in at least some cases, such as where it is not prominent in the frame. I've followed Alamy's advice to not have sculptures more than one third of the frame and made them editorial only. It is something the Arts Law Centre of Australia could probably give you advice on from their perspective. I'm also not sure how the place/country of publication affects all this as well. I would need to read up on copyright law.

 

Yes, it is sad about the wonderful silo art. It seems to be a contentious area, with even the use of the term "silo art trail" controversial and subject to a trademark battle at the moment https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-09/who-should-own-the-phrase-silo-art-trail/13130398 It's also stated on this website that there are "very strict copyright laws regarding silo art and breach of this could lead you into serious trouble" https://www.australiansiloarttrail.com/faq

 

Sometimes I think oh ye gods, the world has gone a bit mad. I agree the artists' works need to be protected, but it would seem to me that an 'in context' image that is not isolating that artwork but showing it in its surroundings is not the same as doing a straight copy of a 2D piece of art. Such photos help to bring that art to a wider audience, bringing awareness to both the artists who created it and the town, community and surrounding area the silo art is situated in, but it seems to be a sensitive and contested area at the moment.

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2 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

I really don't know for sure whether sculptures 'in context' would be ok commercially in at least some cases, such as where it is not prominent in the frame. I've followed Alamy's advice to not have sculptures more than one third of the frame and made them editorial only. It is something the Arts Law Centre of Australia could probably give you advice on from their perspective. I'm also not sure how the place/country of publication affects all this as well. I would need to read up on copyright law.

 

Yes, it is sad about the wonderful silo art. It seems to be a contentious area, with even the use of the term "silo art trail" controversial and subject to a trademark battle at the moment https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-09/who-should-own-the-phrase-silo-art-trail/13130398 It's also stated on this website that there are "very strict copyright laws regarding silo art and breach of this could lead you into serious trouble" https://www.australiansiloarttrail.com/faq

 

Sometimes I think oh ye gods, the world has gone a bit mad. I agree the artists' works need to be protected, but it would seem to me that an 'in context' image that is not isolating that artwork but showing it in its surroundings is not the same as doing a straight copy of a 2D piece of art. Such photos help to bring that art to a wider audience, bringing awareness to both the artists who created it and the town, community and surrounding area the silo art is situated in, but it seems to be a sensitive and contested area at the moment.

 

You are a real angel Sally. This is my let down: I have zero patience for Googling. I sat down for a couple of hours and deleted 153 images, including some I might not have needed to but in doubt... Thing is when I go to the website of some of these places, it does not mention commercial photography. Only when you get there, sometimes is a sign 'no commercial photography'. I have sent an e-mail to a garden in the UK asking about it, it was so long ago.

 

My experience is that:

1. they don't know what commercial photography is (they think it's wedding) and/or

2. don't know the rule. In doubt they say no. Just the reply I expect from that garden.

3. they don't know about copyright. One of them said I could sell the photos provided credit is given to them. At which point I gave up.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

I really don't know for sure whether sculptures 'in context' would be ok commercially in at least some cases, such as where it is not prominent in the frame. I've followed Alamy's advice to not have sculptures more than one third of the frame and made them editorial only. It is something the Arts Law Centre of Australia could probably give you advice on from their perspective. I'm also not sure how the place/country of publication affects all this as well. I would need to read up on copyright law.

 

Yes, it is sad about the wonderful silo art. It seems to be a contentious area, with even the use of the term "silo art trail" controversial and subject to a trademark battle at the moment https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-09/who-should-own-the-phrase-silo-art-trail/13130398 It's also stated on this website that there are "very strict copyright laws regarding silo art and breach of this could lead you into serious trouble" https://www.australiansiloarttrail.com/faq

 

Sometimes I think oh ye gods, the world has gone a bit mad. I agree the artists' works need to be protected, but it would seem to me that an 'in context' image that is not isolating that artwork but showing it in its surroundings is not the same as doing a straight copy of a 2D piece of art. Such photos help to bring that art to a wider audience, bringing awareness to both the artists who created it and the town, community and surrounding area the silo art is situated in, but it seems to be a sensitive and contested area at the moment.

 

A very interesting article Sally, and quite impressive use of grain silo's. There used to be some very large derelict grain silos in my area near Oxford UK, sadly now demolished.  I forwarded the ABC link to my brother-in-law, he lives near Airlie Beach in Queensland with his family. These days, even during the pandemic, he travels more internationally for work than within Australia. From the faq url you listed I tried to view CrainCorp's guidelines but got a you don't have permission message. As I'm in the UK I switched my VPN to Australia, no change. Sorry to see you leaving, but we must all do whatever is best for us.

 

There are very strict copyright laws regarding silo art and breach of this could lead you into serious trouble.
GrainCorp, one of our leading silo art owners have put together a detailed document regarding this issue. 
 
 
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12 minutes ago, sb photos said:

 

A very interesting article Sally, and quite impressive use of grain silo's. There used to be some very large derelict grain silos in my area near Oxford UK, sadly now demolished.  I forwarded the ABC link to my brother-in-law, he lives near Airlie Beach in Queensland with his family. These days, even during the pandemic, he travels more internationally for work than within Australia. From the faq url you listed I tried to view CrainCorp's guidelines but got a you don't have permission message. As I'm in the UK I switched my VPN to Australia, no change. Sorry to see you leaving, but we must all do whatever is best for us.

 

There are very strict copyright laws regarding silo art and breach of this could lead you into serious trouble.
GrainCorp, one of our leading silo art owners have put together a detailed document regarding this issue. 
 
 

 

It was interesting to note that the reply to a question 'is there a photographic book of silo art?' was no, because... there would be too many people, entities and committees to contact to get permission.... What chance do we stand? I've deleted all mine. I know, I should have done my homework before. Very sad as one was painted purple, exactly matching the row of jacarandas in bloom nearby. Ah well... Not worth it for a likely $10 these days.

 

Airlie Beach is a gorgeous area. We've spent some time there a few months back. Have you been?

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14 minutes ago, gvallee said:

 

You are a real angel Sally. This is my let down: I have zero patience for Googling. I sat down for a couple of hours and deleted 153 images, including some I might not have needed to but in doubt... Thing is when I go to the website of some of these places, it does not mention commercial photography. Only when you get there, sometimes is a sign 'no commercial photography'. I have sent an e-mail to a garden in the UK asking about it, it was so long ago.

 

My experience is that:

1. they don't know what commercial photography is (they think it's wedding) and/or

2. don't know the rule. In doubt they say no. Just the reply I expect from that garden.

3. they don't know about copyright. One of them said I could sell the photos provided credit is given to them. At which point I gave up.

 

 

 

Additional to your experience, my most common reply when asking if shooting stock was permissible on private property is what would their cut from sales be, and some would want to know where the images would be used before allowing permission. No way would they sign a property release. The best I can sometimes do is show my gardens portfolio, none on Alamy, leave my card, and discuss returning and shooting commercially for them, supplying images, prints or both. Not big money, but cost effective if minimal travel is involved.

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13 minutes ago, sb photos said:

 

Additional to your experience, my most common reply when asking if shooting stock was permissible on private property is what would their cut from sales be, and some would want to know where the images would be used before allowing permission. No way would they sign a property release. The best I can sometimes do is show my gardens portfolio, none on Alamy, leave my card, and discuss returning and shooting commercially for them, supplying images, prints or both. Not big money, but cost effective if minimal travel is involved.

 

We can't win...

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13 minutes ago, gvallee said:

Airlie Beach is a gorgeous area. We've spent some time there a few months back. Have you been?

 

My wife and I were invited to visit around 10 years back, soon after my brother-in-law had moved to a plot a little in land. While living in Airlie Beach they had built a home, with some professional assistance, then sold their Arlie Beach house. I was very busy at the time and couldn't spare a month away from work, so my wife and daughter visited. Now I wish I had gone. They love their life there, Chris's wife was Australian, and he gained Australian nationality. I haven't seen their daughter since she was in a push chair.

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1 hour ago, sb photos said:

 

My wife and I were invited to visit around 10 years back, soon after my brother-in-law had moved to a plot a little in land. While living in Airlie Beach they had built a home, with some professional assistance, then sold their Arlie Beach house. I was very busy at the time and couldn't spare a month away from work, so my wife and daughter visited. Now I wish I had gone. They love their life there, Chris's wife was Australian, and he gained Australian nationality. I haven't seen their daughter since she was in a push chair.

 

Your brother-in-law must be a FIFO to be able to travel abroad? I hope not to Papua!!

 

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3 hours ago, gvallee said:

You are a real angel Sally. This is my let down: I have zero patience for Googling. I sat down for a couple of hours and deleted 153 images, including some I might not have needed to but in doubt... Thing is when I go to the website of some of these places, it does not mention commercial photography. Only when you get there, sometimes is a sign 'no commercial photography'. I have sent an e-mail to a garden in the UK asking about it, it was so long ago.

 

My experience is that:

1. they don't know what commercial photography is (they think it's wedding) and/or

2. don't know the rule. In doubt they say no. Just the reply I expect from that garden.

3. they don't know about copyright. One of them said I could sell the photos provided credit is given to them. At which point I gave up.

 

I hope I didn't lead you to delete anything unnecessarily! It is often difficult to tell, as there are often grey areas. I had one image with grain silos in the background that have a mural on them. This is one I included asking Alamy to delete if they can, but my images will all be down soon anyway. I have another one with the same silos but so far away in the distance that I don't think it matters. I had a look at an Australian photography RF site and they have plenty of silos, but notably none with murals on them, so that probably tells a story in itself.

 

The thing is, it is often not clear what really is allowed like you say after trying to follow up with locations about what is permitted. In some places I think commercial photography is largely referring to things like people coming in with heaps of gear and doing something like a shoot involving models for a brand. One individual photographer on their own may not be an issue. But in other contexts it may be an issue 😕 

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3 hours ago, sb photos said:

A very interesting article Sally, and quite impressive use of grain silo's. There used to be some very large derelict grain silos in my area near Oxford UK, sadly now demolished.  I forwarded the ABC link to my brother-in-law, he lives near Airlie Beach in Queensland with his family. These days, even during the pandemic, he travels more internationally for work than within Australia. From the faq url you listed I tried to view CrainCorp's guidelines but got a you don't have permission message. As I'm in the UK I switched my VPN to Australia, no change. Sorry to see you leaving, but we must all do whatever is best for us.

 

There are very strict copyright laws regarding silo art and breach of this could lead you into serious trouble.
GrainCorp, one of our leading silo art owners have put together a detailed document regarding this issue. 

Thanks Steve. I also tried to click on the link to the guidelines but as I'm not on Facebook I could go no further as the next prompt was to log into Facebook. I still forwarded it for anyone who is on FB and wants to investigate further. As for the GrainCorp link, it takes me to a page that says the webpage has moved. Just now I clicked on a link on that page which took me to the main GrainCorp website and then I went to a link for silo art ( https://www.graincorp.com.au/silo-art/ ) and then their was a pdf on guidelines for commercial use of images of silo art here (but don't know if you can open this from the UK): https://www.graincorp.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/GrainCorp-Guidelines-Use-of-Silo-Art.pdf

 

The article is primarily about the commercial use of images of the silo art in merchandise. It is still unclear to me whether a stock photographer uploading an image as editorial would still be a problem in their view. They do say that they will work retrospectively with anyone who has used the grain silos in commercial merchandise without realising copyright restrictions. There is a profit share arrangement where a percentage of merchandise sales goes back into the local community, so that makes sense and sounds like a fair arrangement.

 

So in this case, I think if you had an image marked editorial it would be at the fault of the user who licensed it if they created merchandise with it without permission from GrainCorp and when it was deemed not for commercial use on the stock agency. I think the only way to find out more about whether editorial stock images are ok for murals is by contacting the Arts Law Centre of Australia directly or reading to see if it is specified in Australian Copyright Law itself.

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51 minutes ago, Sally R said:

 

I hope I didn't lead you to delete anything unnecessarily! It is often difficult to tell, as there are often grey areas. I had one image with grain silos in the background that have a mural on them. This is one I included asking Alamy to delete if they can, but my images will all be down soon anyway. I have another one with the same silos but so far away in the distance that I don't think it matters. I had a look at an Australian photography RF site and they have plenty of silos, but notably none with murals on them, so that probably tells a story in itself.

 

The thing is, it is often not clear what really is allowed like you say after trying to follow up with locations about what is permitted. In some places I think commercial photography is largely referring to things like people coming in with heaps of gear and doing something like a shoot involving models for a brand. One individual photographer on their own may not be an issue. But in other contexts it may be an issue 😕 

 

No, not at all. I deleted some to play safe like a bus shelter with aboriginal art style decorations, ditto public toilets, cafes and tea rooms with those. Aboriginal style art is very popular in Australia, quite understandably because it's very appealing. Others I hadn't done my homework like silo art. Water tanks I deleted (grrr..... I have a fabulous one in the right light with mackerel sky), one of the highlights of the town. 

 

I understand that 3D is OK in Australian Law (sculptures, statues) but not 2D (paintings, flat art). What about mosaics? To me, it's 2D. Although I licensed one (again highlight of a remote town), I deleted it to be safe. 

Then I had a wall with embedded objects, a tourist attraction in a small town. Sounds like 3D to me, just, but to be safe...

Mosaics style embedded artwork in a jetty, of which I had in several towns? Gone

Decorated boomerangs in a gift shop? Gone

Art galleries (for which there has been searches in AoA) taken from the street? Gone

Museum artefacts displays without photographic restrictions in situ? Gone

And so on and so on. 

 

I have to say that the Australia portfolio on Alamy is now poorer, not because I am a big fish, quite the opposite, but I do travel where most people don't. I always check what's on offer on Alamy before getting somewhere and very often there are none or very limited images because these are remote, out-of-the way, sometimes hard to get to places, still interesting and desperately trying to attract tourists. Sad but money does not care about anything else, doesn't it? I still have them for my blog which is very dear to me. A reflection of my life over the past 25 years or so. Wow! It warms my heart to look at it. If only for that reason, I'm happy I took the pics.

 

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1 hour ago, gvallee said:

A reflection of my life over the past 25 years or so. Wow! It warms my heart to look at it. If only for that reason, I'm happy I took the pics.

 

That's beautiful Gen! I think you would have a pretty meaningful collection of images. As far as Australia goes, you might have one of the best collections from right around the continent and from the most diverse and remote places. And the fantastic thing is you are getting out there and enjoying everyday and making the most of it, which is an inspiration to us all! Speaking of which, I think I am going to set my alarm tomorrow morning for some dawn photography with the usual decision to be made - birds or landscape? I'm leaning towards landscape as the forecast indicates slight chance of a shower and light winds. The light winds are great for reflections on water and the slight chance of a shower suggests some cloud (which could be colourful at sunrise) and the possibility of a rainbow 🙂 

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9 minutes ago, Sally R said:

 

That's beautiful Gen! I think you would have a pretty meaningful collection of images. As far as Australia goes, you might have one of the best collections from right around the continent and from the most diverse and remote places. And the fantastic thing is you are getting out there and enjoying everyday and making the most of it, which is an inspiration to us all! Speaking of which, I think I am going to set my alarm tomorrow morning for some dawn photography with the usual decision to be made - birds or landscape? I'm leaning towards landscape as the forecast indicates slight chance of a shower and light winds. The light winds are great for reflections on water and the slight chance of a shower suggests some cloud (which could be colourful at sunrise) and the possibility of a rainbow 🙂 

 

Go for it girl. I have absolutely no problem getting up for sunrise. It's my favourite time of the day. Most of the time, I find myself on my own in nature. All the senses are sharper: sights, sounds, colours. Absolutely love it.

 

I had your dilemma a few times: what is sunrise going to be like? Perhaps birds stand a better chance? We can't carry a long lens, tripod and also a wide angle/filters. Not without some unpleasant messing around anyway. 

 

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

 

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13 minutes ago, gvallee said:

Go for it girl. I have absolutely no problem getting up for sunrise. It's my favourite time of the day. Most of the time, I find myself on my own in nature. All the senses are sharper: sights, sounds, colours. Absolutely love it.

 

I had your dilemma a few times: what is sunrise going to be like? Perhaps birds stand a better chance? We can't carry a long lens, tripod and also a wide angle/filters. Not without some unpleasant messing around anyway. 

 

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

 

I absolutely love it too! Sometimes it is like you are the only person in the world and, yes, it's like the senses are really alive. 10 years ago on the southwest coast I got up before dawn in winter and went to Sugarloaf Rock. No signs of any people or cars driving out there, just a group of Wood Ducks who I stopped for so they could cross the road. Once there I climbed down a steep hill for a good vantage point thinking I am the only person there. I'm setting up my tripod in the dark when I realise there is another photographer about 30 metres to the side of me doing the same thing. That's happened quite a few times now. Often you get to have a good chat with them afterwards and share your photographic results. On that particular morning it was drizzly and a rainbow came out. It is a much photographed rock so I should have probably predicted someone else would be there. Someone very recently uploaded this impressive star trail image from there to Google maps:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Sugarloaf+Rock/@-33.55,114.9833333,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipP2DB0_iCzwxaf-XupUjc7uiVaRT0GQ92IckFyt!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP2DB0_iCzwxaf-XupUjc7uiVaRT0GQ92IckFyt%3Dw179-h120-k-no!7i4000!8i2667!4m5!3m4!1s0x2a2e6144ee47ac33:0xa5239fbf0603da54!8m2!3d-33.55!4d114.9833333?hl=en-GB

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24 minutes ago, Sally R said:

 

I absolutely love it too! Sometimes it is like you are the only person in the world and, yes, it's like the senses are really alive. 10 years ago on the southwest coast I got up before dawn in winter and went to Sugarloaf Rock. No signs of any people or cars driving out there, just a group of Wood Ducks who I stopped for so they could cross the road. Once there I climbed down a steep hill for a good vantage point thinking I am the only person there. I'm setting up my tripod in the dark when I realise there is another photographer about 30 metres to the side of me doing the same thing. That's happened quite a few times now. Often you get to have a good chat with them afterwards and share your photographic results. On that particular morning it was drizzly and a rainbow came out. It is a much photographed rock so I should have probably predicted someone else would be there. Someone very recently uploaded this impressive star trail image from there to Google maps:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Sugarloaf+Rock/@-33.55,114.9833333,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipP2DB0_iCzwxaf-XupUjc7uiVaRT0GQ92IckFyt!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP2DB0_iCzwxaf-XupUjc7uiVaRT0GQ92IckFyt%3Dw179-h120-k-no!7i4000!8i2667!4m5!3m4!1s0x2a2e6144ee47ac33:0xa5239fbf0603da54!8m2!3d-33.55!4d114.9833333?hl=en-GB

 

I have made a note of it, thank you I'm in WA right now so we might head south later on. It very much reminds me of Cathedral Rock, near Kiama, NSW, where I lived.

 

GT18M4.jpg

 

Another nearby great spot for sunrise is Minnamurra. We have to walk along the beach, then walk through a big steep field to get to a ledge on top of the outcrop. One day I got there in the dark just befor sunrise. There was another small campervan parked there. I took my torch and started walking. The person in the van took his torch and started following me. Er oh... I've been attacked three times in my life. I thought that's it, here comes the fourth time. But no, he was another photographer and we reached the top more or less at the same time. Hairy! 

 

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9 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

An interesting read. I did have my VPN connected to Australia, but could still read the pdf when I reconnected to the UK.

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