Workflow simplification

[Terry]

All the work I do for motor sports company's I only shoot medium jpegs, one I work for they are sent almost a mile wireless from out on track, another company I shoot for, I have to upload around 3-4000 images to the server when I get home. If shooting for stock, I tend to shoot Raw.

 

Terry.

[Mirco Vacca]

I know how to use Lightroom very good after almost 5 years of practice. But i have to say on my Sony Nex-6 i can not come with RAW as close as with JPEG to sharpness. My images processed by camera in JPEG are so much sharper then i ever can get with RAW. I can not explain why. With the Canon 50d i always created sharper images with raw but the JPEG images of Sony Nex are just very great. I want the best quality and in this case i can not get around the in camera processed images. I do everything the same as i would do with Lightroom. Adding brightness and colors, adjusting white balance and contrast. I set it in the camera and see on the screen directly the results. This is not different then on Lightroom ,....just done before. After i check the images one by one for spots or other small errors that i eventually fix with photoshop but most of the time it is not nescessary.

 

Again.....this is my way. It is not the right way... i doesnt exist. To many different people with different tastes and needs. Anyway this thread was about how to work more simple. For me i work faster and have better images then before. Using the new technology of the newer cameras. You can do anything you want as long you know why and what you are doing.

 

Mirco

[MDM]

I know how to use Lightroom very good after almost 5 years of practice. But i have to say on my Sony Nex-6 i can not come with RAW as close as with JPEG to sharpness. My images processed by camera in JPEG are so much sharper then i ever can get with RAW. I can not explain why. With the Canon 50d i always created sharper images with raw but the JPEG images of Sony Nex are just very great. I want the best quality and in this case i can not get around the in camera processed images. I do everything the same as i would do with Lightroom. Adding brightness and colors, adjusting white balance and contrast. I set it in the camera and see on the screen directly the results. This is not different then on Lightroom ,....just done before. After i check the images one by one for spots or other small errors that i eventually fix with photoshop but most of the time it is not nescessary.

 

Again.....this is my way. It is not the right way... i doesnt exist. To many different people with different tastes and needs. Anyway this thread was about how to work more simple. For me i work faster and have better images then before. Using the new technology of the newer cameras. You can do anything you want as long you know why and what you are doing.

 

Mirco

I don't know as I only shoot raw but maybe you have in-camera sharpening turned on if the jpegs are sharper than the raws? 

[John Mitchell]

I know how to use Lightroom very good after almost 5 years of practice. But i have to say on my Sony Nex-6 i can not come with RAW as close as with JPEG to sharpness. My images processed by camera in JPEG are so much sharper then i ever can get with RAW. I can not explain why. With the Canon 50d i always created sharper images with raw but the JPEG images of Sony Nex are just very great. I want the best quality and in this case i can not get around the in camera processed images. I do everything the same as i would do with Lightroom. Adding brightness and colors, adjusting white balance and contrast. I set it in the camera and see on the screen directly the results. This is not different then on Lightroom ,....just done before. After i check the images one by one for spots or other small errors that i eventually fix with photoshop but most of the time it is not nescessary.

 

Again.....this is my way. It is not the right way... i doesnt exist. To many different people with different tastes and needs. Anyway this thread was about how to work more simple. For me i work faster and have better images then before. Using the new technology of the newer cameras. You can do anything you want as long you know why and what you are doing.

 

Mirco

Mirco, I believe the NEX cameras automatically apply some sharpening when you shoot JPEG. It certainly appears that way with the JPEGs produced by my NEX-3. They look much crisper than my RAW files. Perhaps David K., our resident Sony guru, can verify this.

 

I'm beginning to agree with you. Why not take advantage of all this new technology built into today's cameras. Also, If you shoot RAW+JPEG, you can always process the RAW file if the JPEG doesn't work out.

 

The fact that you use JPEG mode and never seem to fail QC (wish I could say the same) seems to indicate that you are on the right track. Hopefully, though, you won't have to upload another 5000 images before being able to buy another beer.

[MDM]

 

I know how to use Lightroom very good after almost 5 years of practice. But i have to say on my Sony Nex-6 i can not come with RAW as close as with JPEG to sharpness. My images processed by camera in JPEG are so much sharper then i ever can get with RAW. I can not explain why. With the Canon 50d i always created sharper images with raw but the JPEG images of Sony Nex are just very great. I want the best quality and in this case i can not get around the in camera processed images. I do everything the same as i would do with Lightroom. Adding brightness and colors, adjusting white balance and contrast. I set it in the camera and see on the screen directly the results. This is not different then on Lightroom ,....just done before. After i check the images one by one for spots or other small errors that i eventually fix with photoshop but most of the time it is not nescessary.

 

Again.....this is my way. It is not the right way... i doesnt exist. To many different people with different tastes and needs. Anyway this thread was about how to work more simple. For me i work faster and have better images then before. Using the new technology of the newer cameras. You can do anything you want as long you know why and what you are doing.

 

Mirco

Mirco, I believe the NEX cameras automatically apply some sharpening when you shoot JPEG. It certainly appears that way with the JPEGs produced by my NEX-3. They look much crisper than my RAW files. Perhaps David K., our resident Sony guru, can verify this.

 

I'm beginning to agree with you. Why not take advantage of all this new technology built into today's cameras. Also, If you shoot RAW+JPEG, you can always process the RAW file if the JPEG doesn't work out.

 

The fact that you use JPEG mode and never seem to fail QC (wish I could say the same) seems to indicate that you are on the right track. Hopefully, though, you won't have to upload another 5000 images before being able to buy another beer.

 

In-camera sharpening is supposed to be turned off according to the submission guidelines. Point 5 in the link below.

 

http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/digital-camera-images.asp

[Mirco Vacca]

 

 

 

 

Mirco, I believe the NEX cameras automatically apply some sharpening when you shoot JPEG. It certainly appears that way with the JPEGs produced by my NEX-3. They look much crisper than my RAW files. Perhaps David K., our resident Sony guru, can verify this.

I know how to use Lightroom very good after almost 5 years of practice. But i have to say on my Sony Nex-6 i can not come with RAW as close as with JPEG to sharpness. My images processed by camera in JPEG are so much sharper then i ever can get with RAW. I can not explain why. With the Canon 50d i always created sharper images with raw but the JPEG images of Sony Nex are just very great. I want the best quality and in this case i can not get around the in camera processed images. I do everything the same as i would do with Lightroom. Adding brightness and colors, adjusting white balance and contrast. I set it in the camera and see on the screen directly the results. This is not different then on Lightroom ,....just done before. After i check the images one by one for spots or other small errors that i eventually fix with photoshop but most of the time it is not nescessary.

 

Again.....this is my way. It is not the right way... i doesnt exist. To many different people with different tastes and needs. Anyway this thread was about how to work more simple. For me i work faster and have better images then before. Using the new technology of the newer cameras. You can do anything you want as long you know why and what you are doing.

 

Mirco

 

I'm beginning to agree with you. Why not take advantage of all this new technology built into today's cameras. Also, If you shoot RAW+JPEG, you can always process the RAW file if the JPEG doesn't work out.

 

The fact that you use JPEG mode and never seem to fail QC (wish I could say the same) seems to indicate that you are on the right track. Hopefully, though, you won't have to upload another 5000 images before being able to buy another beer.

In-camera sharpening is supposed to be turned off according to the submission guidelines. Point 5 in the link below.

 

http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/digital-camera-images.asp

First of all... Hi MDM nice to read something from you again.

 

This are not the rules you need to follow. This is only a advice. I know what they all mean. My endresult is the same. Coming to a sharp, low-noise, dust free image that passes the QC. I am not blindly following my camera, i do it because i feel comfortable with all the technique of photography.

 

[Mirco Vacca]

 

I know how to use Lightroom very good after almost 5 years of practice. But i have to say on my Sony Nex-6 i can not come with RAW as close as with JPEG to sharpness. My images processed by camera in JPEG are so much sharper then i ever can get with RAW. I can not explain why. With the Canon 50d i always created sharper images with raw but the JPEG images of Sony Nex are just very great. I want the best quality and in this case i can not get around the in camera processed images. I do everything the same as i would do with Lightroom. Adding brightness and colors, adjusting white balance and contrast. I set it in the camera and see on the screen directly the results. This is not different then on Lightroom ,....just done before. After i check the images one by one for spots or other small errors that i eventually fix with photoshop but most of the time it is not nescessary.

 

Again.....this is my way. It is not the right way... i doesnt exist. To many different people with different tastes and needs. Anyway this thread was about how to work more simple. For me i work faster and have better images then before. Using the new technology of the newer cameras. You can do anything you want as long you know why and what you are doing.

 

Mirco

Mirco, I believe the NEX cameras automatically apply some sharpening when you shoot JPEG. It certainly appears that way with the JPEGs produced by my NEX-3. They look much crisper than my RAW files. Perhaps David K., our resident Sony guru, can verify this.

 

I'm beginning to agree with you. Why not take advantage of all this new technology built into today's cameras. Also, If you shoot RAW+JPEG, you can always process the RAW file if the JPEG doesn't work out.

 

The fact that you use JPEG mode and never seem to fail QC (wish I could say the same) seems to indicate that you are on the right track. Hopefully, though, you won't have to upload another 5000 images before being able to buy another beer.

 

About the QC thing i really feel that i have it fully under control. Yes John.... lets use the technology for us. Shooting in JPEG doesnt meant that somebody doesnt care about quality. I totally care. I do all the checking per image if it is sharp, low noised, dust free. I just try to make my life easier and accept the new gadgets. I think a lot about the light before i shoot the image. Many thinks i skip just because the light is not good enough. In other cases when it is difficult situation is shoot in RAW. Everything depends on the light. My luck i choose the most optimal moments to shoot in JPEG.

 

And i am waiting for my second beer ...

 

Mirco

[Bryan]

1) I've not had any problems achieving sharpness with NEX 6 raw files, In fact I continue to be amazed at the quality of the images taken with old prime lenses, with no noticeable fall off at the edges or corners. For example spiky things at the top of tall towers are wonderfully defined, but then I'm easily pleased....

 

2) On PS actions, one of the most useful is a trick I learned from a kind contributor to the old Alamy forum (step forward that wo/man).  When spotting images it is useful to be able to highlight the dust marks, and if you use a linear burn adjustment layer of type photo filter with an appropriate colour, it does just that. The action sets up the layer and then transfers the focus back to the background layer so that you can take out the spots. I use it on every image with a light background. Occasionally you need to reduce the opacity of the layer if the resulting blend is too dark.

 

This was an absolute necessity with the 5DI and 5DII, but the NEX produces  much cleaner images, which is curious considering that it has no mirror to protect the sensor and I often find myself changing lenses before every shot.

[Ashish Agarwal]

Hi Bryan, 

 

The point #2 you talk about above sounds interesting. If you don't mind, can you provide more details ?

 

I use PS actions to create multiple versions of photos from my RAW, so once I am done with some light adjustment, the action does:

1. Output a JPG of the same dimensions

2. Another JPEG with a watermark right in the middle 

3. Another JPEG at 300 DPI

4. 2 more JPG's at 800 pixels (one with watermark, one without - for places such as Facebook, Flickr, etc)

All of these go into their own separate folders.

[MDM]

Mirco - forgetting about Alamy, QC and all that, I would say that it is not a good idea to have in-camera sharpened JPEGs as your only copies of your images. Somewhere down the line you may need unsharpened versions.

 

I say this from my own experience from the days of slide film. I made a large number (probably over 1000) of slide scans and applied sharpening in Photoshop after doing everything else -spotting etc. Even from a good scanner (I used a Nikon 4000 for the later ones), the scans look incredibly unsharp in comparison to what I get from my DSLRs. Unfortunately I didn't keep the unsharpened scans. The sharpened images would have no chance of passing Alamy or any other QC. They look fine as A4 prints but, viewed 100% on-screen, they look dire - noise is not the word for this. I have no intention of going back and rescanning - far too much work - so for stock purposes they are useless.

 

This may be an extreme comparison as in-camera sharpened JPEGs will not look like these scans but the principle is the same. Best of luck.

[Mirco Vacca]

 

Mirco - forgetting about Alamy, QC and all that, I would say that it is not a good idea to have in-camera sharpened JPEGs as your only copies of your images. Somewhere down the line you may need unsharpened versions.

 

I say this from my own experience from the days of slide film. I made a large number (probably over 1000) of slide scans and applied sharpening in Photoshop after doing everything else -spotting etc. Even from a good scanner (I used a Nikon 4000 for the later ones), the scans look incredibly unsharp in comparison to what I get from my DSLRs. Unfortunately I didn't keep the unsharpened scans. The sharpened images would have no chance of passing Alamy or any other QC. They look fine as A4 prints but, viewed 100% on-screen, they look dire - noise is not the word for this. I have no intention of going back and rescanning - far too much work - so for stock purposes they are useless.

 

This may be an extreme comparison as in-camera sharpened JPEGs will not look like these scans but the principle is the same. Best of luck.

I understand what you want to tell.....

 

But the images coming from the camera are really extremely sharp. I would never need to do anything more. I would also not imagine that i would need them again. I never touched my images anymore that i made 6 years ago. This is more a personal thing. I tell you i tried everything. I add sharpness in raw but then i get more noise and vice versa. The camera makes it somehow in JPEG very sharp with no added noise. I never had this with my Canon 50D. I really think it is this days advanced technology.

 

The same with ISO performance. I shoot iso 1600 in JPEG on concerts and it looks relative amazing. Saving a 1600 iso raw file is far more difficult for me. I could never get it as good as the camera does now. It is working optimal.

 

Mirco

[Tim Ayers]

Thanks for all your replies, I seem to have opened a RAW/JPEG can of worms here. Especially thanks to Craig who gave a step by step breakdown of his workflow.

I think in my workflow is very sluggish just a bit old fashioned -

 

1. Open several RAW images from a batch in NX2 and select the best one (perfect viewpoint etc)

2. Adjust exact exposure

3. Remove lost highlights with NX control points

3. Take into Photoshop

4. Straighten (if it's needed)

5. Remove blotches and dust at 100%

6. Save as JPG

7. Send to Alamy and cross fingers

 

I'll get there but I want to eventually submit 10 or 20 thousand images and this needs streamlining, but thanks to your advice I've now got ideas

Tim

[Mirco Vacca]

Actually it is clear how to pass QC. Just check them for sharpness and all the points. If there are ok then you dont need to cross your fingers . They will pass for sure. If you are unsure then the issue is to learn how to "check and recognize" technical errors. on your own images. This needs practice. It is crazy when i look back at my images made 6 years ago what i considered as sharp. Some of them i would delete directly if i would see them now. My own images.......

[John Mitchell]

Actually it is clear how to pass QC. Just check them for sharpness and all the points. If there are ok then you dont need to cross your fingers . They will pass for sure. If you are unsure then the issue is to learn how to "check and recognize" technical errors. on your own images. This needs practice. It is crazy when i look back at my images made 6 years ago what i considered as sharp. Some of them i would delete directly if i would see them now. My own images.......

It seems to me that Alamy QC has also drastically changed its idea of sharpness. They now seem to expect images to look as sharp at 100% as they do at print size. I would say that probably half of the digital images that I uploaded a few years ago would not pass QC now. Also, I have at least 1500 scans that I submitted in 2007-2009. Not one of them failed QC. These days, I wouldn't dare upload a scan for fear that it would fail. I think that things really started to change when Alamy stopped requiring that images be uprezzed to 48MB. However, I'm not totally clear about what is behind this apparent change in policy.

 

P.S. Mirco, I don't think that in-camera sharpening can be turned off with the NEX cameras. Correct? Then again, you can't turn it on either, so perhaps none is applied. I don't know. Another question for David K. perhaps (poor David, we expect so much of him).

[Mirco Vacca]

 

Actually it is clear how to pass QC. Just check them for sharpness and all the points. If there are ok then you dont need to cross your fingers . They will pass for sure. If you are unsure then the issue is to learn how to "check and recognize" technical errors. on your own images. This needs practice. It is crazy when i look back at my images made 6 years ago what i considered as sharp. Some of them i would delete directly if i would see them now. My own images.......

It seems to me that Alamy QC has also drastically changed its idea of sharpness. They now seem to expect images to look as sharp at 100% as they do at print size. I would say that probably half of the digital images that I uploaded a few years ago would not pass QC now. Also, I have at least 1500 scans that I submitted in 2007-2009. Not one of them failed QC. These days, I wouldn't dare upload a scan for fear that it would fail. I think that things really started to change when Alamy stopped requiring that images be uprezzed to 48MB. However, I'm not totally clear about what is behind this apparent change in policy.

 

P.S. Mirco, I don't think that in-camera sharpening can be turned off with the NEX cameras. Correct? Then again, you can't turn it on either, so perhaps none is applied. I don't know. Another question for David K. perhaps (poor David, we expect so much of him).

John, i guess you are right... i dont see the off switch either. Never felt for checking it....... But anyway John .... it is allowed to keep it on. Off course it was adviced to turn it off because you can not guarantee that all cameras do a great job. But in the Nex case there is nothing to be afraid of. I dont see any strange errors made by the camera.

[Ed Rooney]

Wow, Ashish. I believe in taking the small amount of time to work with RAW, but I don't want to be doing all that Post. 

[John Mitchell]

 

 

Actually it is clear how to pass QC. Just check them for sharpness and all the points. If there are ok then you dont need to cross your fingers . They will pass for sure. If you are unsure then the issue is to learn how to "check and recognize" technical errors. on your own images. This needs practice. It is crazy when i look back at my images made 6 years ago what i considered as sharp. Some of them i would delete directly if i would see them now. My own images.......

It seems to me that Alamy QC has also drastically changed its idea of sharpness. They now seem to expect images to look as sharp at 100% as they do at print size. I would say that probably half of the digital images that I uploaded a few years ago would not pass QC now. Also, I have at least 1500 scans that I submitted in 2007-2009. Not one of them failed QC. These days, I wouldn't dare upload a scan for fear that it would fail. I think that things really started to change when Alamy stopped requiring that images be uprezzed to 48MB. However, I'm not totally clear about what is behind this apparent change in policy.

 

P.S. Mirco, I don't think that in-camera sharpening can be turned off with the NEX cameras. Correct? Then again, you can't turn it on either, so perhaps none is applied. I don't know. Another question for David K. perhaps (poor David, we expect so much of him).

John, i guess you are right... i dont see the off switch either. Never felt for checking it....... But anyway John .... it is allowed to keep it on. Off course it was adviced to turn it off because you can not guarantee that all cameras do a great job. But in the Nex case there is nothing to be afraid of. I dont see any strange errors made by the camera.

 

Mirco, Alamy does specify that in-camera sharpening should be turned off, which you can't do with the NEX cameras. I wonder if this is the same with other brands of small, mirrorless cameras. On my first-generation Sony DSLR, you couldn't turn the sharpening totally off, but you could turn it down. Perhaps some sharpening is even applied to RAW files with the NEX cameras. Again, I don't know. Some in-camera sharpening may be unavoidable with many of today's cameras. I guess Alamy is aware of this.

[Mirco Vacca]

John i really think that i read that it is only an advice of Alamy to put sharpening off and not obligation. In the link of MDM you can read that it is only an advice.

 

But you know what. I will ask Alamy and will let you know as soon i have answer. Maybe good for everybody to hear it from Alamy.

 

Mirco