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4 hours ago, geogphotos said:

You need to look around and do some research. Have a look at the BAPLA agency list for starters and equivalents in other parts of the world. 

 

I'd also suggest setting up your own website using Photoshelter, Zenfolio, Smugmug, or similar. Then during the 6 months deletion wait with Alamy ( I am deleting my vintage slide scans of other people's pictures) build your content as a shop window and invite potential agencies to have a look. Or alternatively see how it goes marketing direct. You will be able to offer your images ready to go and easy to be delivered complete with captions/keywords and ready for sale. 

Absolutely correct.

A lot depends on the type of images you are trying to sell but it has recently got a whole lot easier to do yourself even from your own website with Google Image Licensing: https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2020/08/make-licensing-information-for-your  This is pretty much what Alamy are doing with our images anyway.

This is also interesting reading: https://www.artnome.com/news/2018/3/4/how-blockchain-will-change-photography .. all food for thought if Alamy go ahead with the new contract.

I've been with Alamy so long that I remember the rate being 75% for contributors and it's slowly but surely eroded downwards to what now amounts to 20-40%.

Personally my 'line in the sand' is 50% for exclusive images. Below that it is no longer economically viable for me to produce content to give to one agency.

 

It's such a shame that Alamy don't appear to realise what strength and depth they have in their exclusive content and that by cutting the royalties the only alternative for contributors is to go non exclusive and supply multiple agencies to make up the shortfall. I wouldn't have thought that this is a good long term business decision for Alamy but maybe now it's part of PA they no longer care or are trying to increase profits in the short term so they can sell it on again .. who knows!

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Because of Alamy messing about with the algorithms of the search engine a few years ago my sales dropped dramatically. I cannot say I was ever a big earner with Alamy but was doing ok. It looks like my sales this year will be below $250 gross at the moment.

 

I could take the hit of 20% giving an income of 40% per image but anything lower??? Well that is MS territory and I never wanted to go there anyway. Also my images with Alamy are all RM and exclusive but in the light of an income cut would have to be made non-exclusive.

 

However it is not just about the money as I said above I am also seriously concerned about the terms of the new contract and if PA/Alamy persist with then I have no option other than to leave before the new contract starts.

 

Allan

 

I’m with you on this Allan.

Our small portfolio of images consistently made around $700 a year. In 2020 to 2021 this dropped to $200.....

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1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

Level heads required guys and I know Kumar is a very level-headed guy. But the Chicken Little effect is really taking off when Kumar is running with the mob. 😀

 

I am fully convinced that clause 4.1.5 is being seriously  misinterpreted which is not surprising as it is written in a very confusing way but to reiterate: THE CONTENT OF THIS CLAUSE IS NOT NEW. It has been in the contract at least since 2010.

 

 

2010: 4.4 You hold the rights to grant, market, license, sell or assign all rights in the Images, including but not limited to the rights to grant reproduction rights in the Images for print, motion picture, television, video, cable, computer, radio, cartoon, merchandising and/or Internet, to make the Images available on electronic equipment, CD-ROM, DVD and other similar media or via the Internet, and to include them in any catalogue, Internet sites or marketing in any form (“the Rights”); Except for the Prior Rights (if any) there is not and will not during the term of this contract be any fetter on Alamy licensing each Image to a Customer to the fullest extent possible.

 

2021: 4.1.5 except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;

 

So I do think this must relate to previous licences elsewhere of the images and is not a declaration of Alamy's intent to ignore restrictions which are covered further down as 

 

 

2010: 4.7 You have detailed in the relevant fields of the System all Licence restrictions and all Prior Rights applicable to each Image

 

2021: 4.1.10 you have detailed in full in the relevant fields of the System any and all restrictions that you wish to apply to each item Content, such restrictions to include all rights that have previously been licensed or granted in respect of the Content. You acknowledge and agree that Alamy may set additional restrictions in relation to the Content.

 

 

So to reiterate this is not new and if you are worried about it now why have you not worried about it for the last 11 years at least?

 

Also the fact that Alamy actually contacted contributors to ask about removal of restrictions is surely a positive thing - they are actually asking and not riding roughshod over restrictions.

 

 

I'm afraid it is different, and a change.

 

It's the way that Prior Rights and Restrictions are seperated. 

 

In 2010 Licence Restrictions and Prior Rights are called out seperately in 4.7. The onus is on the contributor to provide certain information. There is no onus on Alamy. In 4.4, Alamy is allowed to licence an image to the "fullest extent possible". But if you have placed a licence restriction then their "fullest extent" will be limited. 

 

In 2021, 4.1.10, it says that the contributor has "detailed in full in the relevant fields of the System any and all restrictions that you wish to apply to each item". So this is an onus on the contributor. But in 4.1.5 the only restriction on Alamy relates to "rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content". There is nothing that requires Alamy to take account of the restrictions that the contributor has specified as per 4.1.10. Your 'wish' can be ignored.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Keith Douglas said:

I'm afraid it is different, and a change.

 

It's the way that Prior Rights and Restrictions are seperated. 

 

In 2010 Licence Restrictions and Prior Rights are called out seperately in 4.7. The onus is on the contributor to provide certain information. There is no onus on Alamy. In 4.4, Alamy is allowed to licence an image to the "fullest extent possible". But if you have placed a licence restriction then their "fullest extent" will be limited. 

 

In 2021, 4.1.10, it says that the contributor has "detailed in full in the relevant fields of the System any and all restrictions that you wish to apply to each item". So this is an onus on the contributor. But in 4.1.5 the only restriction on Alamy relates to "rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content". There is nothing that requires Alamy to take account of the restrictions that the contributor has specified as per 4.1.10. Your 'wish' can be ignored.

 

 

 

As has the RM lite licences for RM images that are essentialy RF by stealth.

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33 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Or perhaps a lack of understanding of the uniqueness of Alamy and what they bought into. The Alamy model,  a vast unedited collection managed by the contributors whose competence in photography is measured by an initial hard QC followed by occasional random sampling, is probably unique. The heavy handed way it was announced didn't help and the some of you have been misbehaving but you are all going to be punished approach really does not go down well at all.

 

But as for PR - PA is most of the British press media. Are they going to flog themselves?  I somehow doubt that this is in line with the ethos of the Guardian (minor shareholder I believe) and if they don't already know what is happening then perhaps someone should tell them. The Guardian is currently priding itself on 200 years of standing up for the little guy. This would make good reading. 

It would also be good to get a view from the NUJ (a lot of us are members), and others. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

I'm afraid it is different, and a change.

 

It's the way that Prior Rights and Restrictions are seperated. 

 

In 2010 Licence Restrictions and Prior Rights are called out seperately in 4.7. The onus is on the contributor to provide certain information. There is no onus on Alamy. In 4.4, Alamy is allowed to licence an image to the "fullest extent possible". But if you have placed a licence restriction then their "fullest extent" will be limited. 

 

In 2021, 4.1.10, it says that the contributor has "detailed in full in the relevant fields of the System any and all restrictions that you wish to apply to each item". So this is an onus on the contributor. But in 4.1.5 the only restriction on Alamy relates to "rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content". There is nothing that requires Alamy to take account of the restrictions that the contributor has specified as per 4.1.10. Your 'wish' can be ignored.

 

 

 

I agree that clarification is required. If Alamy can simply override our restrictions then the situation is untenable. I find it hard to believe that would be their intent but the loss of trust is a serious critical issue. They need to explain.

Edited by MDM
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10 minutes ago, imageplotter said:

It would also be good to get a view from the NUJ (a lot of us are members), and others. 

 

Definitely. Phil Crean suggested that last night as well. Up to you? 😀

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4 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Definitely. Phil Crean suggested that last night as well. Up to you? 😀

 

Happy to contact them, but I'm a small fish. Perhaps a letter signed by lots of contributors who are NUJ members would work? They did take an interest last time Alamy changed the commission model.

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3 minutes ago, imageplotter said:

 

Happy to contact them, but I'm a small fish. Perhaps a letter signed by lots of contributors who are NUJ members would work? They did take an interest last time Alamy changed the commission model.

I'll sign. Anyone else with NUJ Bham branch?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

I agree that clarification is required. If Alamy can simply override our restrictions then the situation is untenable. I find it hard to believe that would be their intent but the loss of trust is a serious issue. They need to explain.

I'm pleased that you now agree that there is clarification required and that there is more to worry about than there was in 2010.

 

Who knows what their intent was? It hasn't been explained. And with the clauses as they stand they could, no doubt, argue that the omission of any further qualification relating to contributor restrictions was deliberate because they needed additional flexibility following demands from their customers.

Edited by Keith Douglas
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8 minutes ago, imageplotter said:

 

Happy to contact them, but I'm a small fish. Perhaps a letter signed by lots of contributors who are NUJ members would work? They did take an interest last time Alamy changed the commission model.

 

I'll sign as well

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

I'm pleased that you now agree that there is clarification required and that there is more to worry about than there was in 2010.

 

Who knows what their intent was? It hasn't been explained. And with the clauses as they stand they could, no doubt, argue that the omission of any further qualification relating to contributor restrictions was because they needed additional flexibility following demands from their customers.

 

Is that implying I said I didn't want clarification? That would be ridiculous. That is a misinterpretation of my intent here. I have just been pointing out that similar clauses have been in the contract all along as a lot of people have been effectively panicking thinking that all this is new. I am not a lawyer and I cannot dissect the detailed legal differences. Yes of course I want clarification. Otherwise I will be handing in my notice as well. 

Edited by MDM
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For the sake of doubt please Alamy explain in plain English what Clause 4.1.5 really means.

 

2021: 4.1.5 except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;

 

Does this mean that Alamy is asserting a right to override contributors' restrictions? 

 

In early incarnations this appeared to be related to previous licences presumably granted elsewhere (e.g. exclusivity with another agency). Has the meaning of this clause changed? 

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I believe Alamy promised us that they would explain all this at the end of the week.  It is now the end of the week and approaching the end of the business day in the UK.  If Alamy does finally come and explain all this today, are they waiting till the end of day and just look at our responses on Monday?  Are they not going to leave us some interactive time with them today?

 

Jill

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4 minutes ago, MDM said:

For the sake of doubt please Alamy explain in plain English what Clause 4.1.5 really means.

 

2021: 4.1.5 except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;

 

Does this mean that Alamy is asserting a right to override contributors' restrictions? 

 

In early incarnations this appeared to be related to previous licences presumably granted elsewhere (e.g. exclusivity with another agency). Has the meaning of this clause changed? 

 

the clause clearly says exactly that - Alamy has the right to override- unless it has been licensed previously with different rights

 

maybe we've done these clauses to death now

 

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3 minutes ago, Jill Morgan said:

I believe Alamy promised us that they would explain all this at the end of the week.  It is now the end of the week and approaching the end of the business day in the UK.  If Alamy does finally come and explain all this today, are they waiting till the end of day and just look at our responses on Monday?  Are they not going to leave us some interactive time with them today?

 

Jill

They'll probably submit their response last thing before the end of the working day. I believe that's what's called burying the news... Last thing on a Friday.

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10 minutes ago, MDM said:

For the sake of doubt please Alamy explain in plain English what Clause 4.1.5 really means.

 

2021: 4.1.5 except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;

 

Does this mean that Alamy is asserting a right to override contributors' restrictions? 

 

In early incarnations this appeared to be related to previous licences presumably granted elsewhere (e.g. exclusivity with another agency). Has the meaning of this clause changed? 

 

That is what it says, whatever was originally intended. That is the interpretation I believe a court or arbitrator would apply. It is not about trsuting what Alamy say it means, it is what legal text says so that clause needs rewriting or our restrictions do not mean anything.

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3 minutes ago, Foreign Export said:

 

the clause clearly says exactly that - Alamy has the right to override- unless it has been licensed previously with different rights

 

maybe we've done these clauses to death now

 

 

I don't agree. We need an explanation of what any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content  means. I can't believe that they would intend to override contributor restrictions and I think it relates to prior licensing elsewhere. But it is vital to get an explanation from Alamy. 

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2 minutes ago, Martin P Wilson said:

 

That is what it says, whatever was originally intended. That is the interpretation I believe a court or arbitrator would apply. It is not about trsuting what Alamy say it means, it is what legal text says so that clause needs rewriting or our restrictions do not mean anything.

 

I agree. Explain and rewrite Alamy. The deadline approaches.

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1 minute ago, MDM said:

 

I agree. Explain and rewrite Alamy. The deadline approaches.

 

you have said I don't agree then said I agree

but Martin and I are saying the same thing !!

 

 

 

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Here is my current list of questions to Alamy.

 

I am NOT asking the forum to speculate about answers or explanations. Alamy's answers are the ones that count, and we don't need to help them write their script.

 

I AM asking forum members if they have any other specific, direct, dispassionate questions about the contract changes.

 

1.  New Commission Structure:  What is your rationale for changing to this structure? How did you come up with the sales thresholds for the tiers? How many contributors and images are currently in each of the three tiers? What are your expectations or goals for the three tiers?

 

2.  Clause 4.1.5:  The new clause states there will not "be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content." Does this use of the term "restriction" include usage restrictions that contributors have applied to images? The term is not covered in Definitions. If contributors' usage restrictions are not included here, that should be clarified in the contract.

 

3.  Clause 4.1.6: This clause seems broader than previous versions, and seems to require the contributor to certify that things beyond the contributor's control will not happen. Can this be clarified?

 

4.  Clause 8.3:  This clause was changed to permit Alamy to promote through discounted Content "or complimentary Content". This change should be included in the list of contract changes. How will promotion through complimentary Content be done? Will individual images be licensed to individual buyers/potential buyers? With standard license terms? Will contributors be notified if images are used as complimentary Content? Will this include RM and RF licenses? 

 

5.  Clause 12.7:  The new clause begins, "If any payment made to you by Alamy is not withdrawn from your Account within a period of two (2) years..."  What is the meaning of "withdrawn from your Account," in what context, after Alamy has already made payment?

 

6.  Current Clauses 14.1 and 14.2 (to be removed):  Why are you doing away with the annual independent audit? Will anything replace it?

 

7.  Clause 20: This is not a new contract concern but needs clarification. The contract says that termination of account by a contributor must be "written notice." The online FAQs say to email contributors@alamy.com. Does it satisfy the contract to terminate by email? Can that be specified in the contract?

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4 minutes ago, Martin P Wilson said:

 

That is what it says, whatever was originally intended. That is the interpretation I believe a court or arbitrator would apply. It is not about trsuting what Alamy say it means, it is what legal text says so that clause needs rewriting or our restrictions do not mean anything.

 

and as i have stated before, even more for international contributors where taking Alamy to court, where i could provide documents where they stated a different less negative meaning,  is not really a practical option except in extreme cases.  And as we have found out, even if current owner says one things, the contract goes on after a sale. 

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2 hours ago, MDM said:

A very good reason for not taking down images is the amount of work it has taken to get them up for sale in the first place

 

So leave images in place and apply as many Restrictions as Alamy allows until they reverse their position (or not). Same effect with minimal effort. Took me 30 mins for 3K images.



51187088723_aab0d275ba_o.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Foreign Export said:

 

you have said I don't agree then said I agree

but Martin and I are saying the same thing !!

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Foreign Export said:

 

the clause clearly says exactly that - Alamy has the right to override- unless it has been licensed previously with different rights

 

maybe we've done these clauses to death now

 

 

 

 

How easy it is to be misinterpreted. I meant the clauses have not been done to death if we still don't understand them. It really is not clear what they mean .😀

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Clause 4.1.9 " there are not and will not be any claims by any other party in connection with the use, reproduction or exploitation of the Content;"  (slight amendment of previous clause 4.9)

How can I guarantee that? If someone who happens to be in one of my editorial-only pics finds their image used in an inappropriate way, they have every right to sue the end user. In previous Live News submissions, the people are the main subject of the photo, so would be easily used and recogniseable.

Despite being in the old contract, that's another unreasonable clause.

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