Suggestions on a 24" Monitor?

[Betty LaRue]

19 hours ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

They are heavy Betty but please try not to use the handle to carry or lift it if you possibly can as they are not that strong...

 

Carol

Too late! But it held just fine.

[MDM]

11 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

The Liverpool One Apple Store has changed its appointment system . . . since this morning. The guy I spoke to tonight apologised for that. To buy or order (with a trade in) now, I can show up without an online appointment and queue for about 15 minutes. To "fix" the Adobe/MacBook Pro problems, I must book an appointment to see a techie. And I CAN get a Mac delivered to me at the store. 

 

As I said. 

 

Do you have to pay for the tech advice? I reckon it is something really simple. Did you check out what i said earlier about how much storage you have available - Apple Menu - About this Mac - Storage? 

 

 

[M.Chapman]

6 hours ago, MDM said:

Also the problems with such high resolutions appear to have been resolved by Apple and Adobe (cue Mark Chapman’s entry to contradict that and my mind turning to mush). 

 

However, I prefer a monitor with standard resolution for photography (so 2560x1440 at 27”). Also I like a matte screen and the ability to make all sorts of adjustments that are not possible on an iMac. 

 

Did someone mention my name.  🙂

 

IMHO the problems with high resolution on the 5K iMac aren't totally resolved. To inspect every pixel in an image (100% inspection for Almay QC) it is still necessary to check images at 200% in PS or LR, even if the system settings are used to emulate a 2,560 x 1,440 display, because PS and LR largely ignore this setting when displaying the image.

 

If I was buying now I would probably go for an iMac Mini M1 (instead of an iMac) and a separate 3rd party 2,560 x 1,440 27" monitor which can be switched from Wide Gamut (e.g. AdobeRGB) to sRGB. Advantages of that approach being

 

1) Cheaper than equivalent iMac

2) Easier to upgrade part of the system in future

3) Simpler workflow if producing sRGB images in LR as monitor can simply be switched to give WYSYWIG view without soft proofing

 

That being said I might wait for a Mac Mini with an M series chip with more RAM as there are reports of M1 Macs  giving their SSDs quite a hard time, presumably due to significant swap file activity when RAM runs low. Not a problem for short term performance (SSDs are fast) but the implications on SSD life remain to be seen?

https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/11/m1-mac-ssd-wear/

 

Mark

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by M.Chapman

[MDM]

5 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Did someone mention my name.  🙂

 

If I was buying now I would probably go for an iMac Mini M1 (instead of an iMac) and a separate 3rd party 2,560 x 1,440 27" monitor which can be switched from Wide Gamut (e.g. AdobeRGB) to sRGB. Advantages of that approach being

 

1) Cheaper than equivalent iMac

2) Easier to upgrade part of the system in future

3) Simpler workflow if producing sRGB images in LR as monitor can simply be switched to give WYSYWIG view without soft proofing

 

That being said I might wait for a Mac Mini with an M series chip with more RAM as there are reports of M1 Macs  giving their SSDs quite a hard time, presumably due to significant swap file activity when RAM runs low. Not a problem for short term performance (SSDs are fast) but the implications on SSD life remain to be seen?

https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/11/m1-mac-ssd-wear/

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

I agree. These first Mac Minis look really good but the RAM is limited and the graphics apparently uses the actual RAM as well (not separate graphics memory on the chip). You could then buy a high spec 27" wide gamut BenQ or even better an Eizo for the price of a decent iMac. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by MDM

[Betty LaRue]

4 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Did someone mention my name.  🙂

 

IMHO the problems with high resolution on the 5K iMac aren't totally resolved. To inspect every pixel in an image (100% inspection for Almay QC) it is still necessary to check images at 200% in PS or LR, even if the system settings are used to emulate a 2,560 x 1,440 display, because PS and LR override this setting when displaying the image.

 

If I was buying now I would probably go for an iMac Mini M1 (instead of an iMac) and a separate 3rd party 2,560 x 1,440 27" monitor which can be switched from Wide Gamut (e.g. AdobeRGB) to sRGB. Advantages of that approach being

 

1) Cheaper than equivalent iMac

2) Easier to upgrade part of the system in future

3) Simpler workflow if producing sRGB images in LR as monitor can simply be switched to give WYSYWIG view without soft proofing

 

That being said I might wait for a Mac Mini with an M series chip with more RAM as there are reports of M1 Macs  giving their SSDs quite a hard time, presumably due to significant swap file activity when RAM runs low. Not a problem for short term performance (SSDs are fast) but the implications on SSD life remain to be seen?

https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/11/m1-mac-ssd-wear/

 

Mark

 

 

I saw that, too, but it’s hinted that it may be erroneous. In any case, if true, it would be covered by the warranty. Because if it’s true, the innards would wear out super-fast and within the warranty period.

[M.Chapman]

5 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I saw that, too, but it’s hinted that it may be erroneous. In any case, if true, it would be covered by the warranty. Because if it’s true, the innards would wear out super-fast and within the warranty period.

Or... if you're unlucky, just outside the warranty period. 😞

Mark

[Betty LaRue]

3 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

 

I agree. These first Mac Minis look really good but the RAM is limited and the graphics apparently uses the actual RAM as well (not separate graphics memory on the chip). You could then buy a high spec 27" wide gamut BenQ or even better an Eizo for the price of a decent iMac. 

I’m not positive that the 20/20 iMac with the Intel chip isn’t the way to go. My old 2012 iMac was plenty fast when I bought it, and from what I’ve read, the lasted Intel chip iMacs beat that. Exactly how fast of a machine does one need? As someone pointed out about a car (Geoff, I believe) do you need a car that goes 120mph in 60 seconds if you plan on driving 73-75 mph top speed, like me? Just because there is something faster, does one automatically think they have to have it?

Some of the articles point to the power usages being high for certain filters like blur, radial and sharpening. Even on my oldie, I have no problem using those.

And you can get the RAM you want. I think the 27” are still for sale.

[Betty LaRue]

1 minute ago, M.Chapman said:

Or... if you're unlucky, just outside the warranty period. 😞

Mark

Buy the extended! I never do, but maybe in this case...

 

[M.Chapman]

6 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I’m not positive that the 20/20 iMac with the Intel chip isn’t the way to go. My old 2012 iMac was plenty fast when I bought it, and from what I’ve read, the lasted Intel chip iMacs beat that. Exactly how fast of a machine does one need? As someone pointed out about a car (Geoff, I believe) do you need a car that goes 120mph in 60 seconds if you plan on driving 73-75 mph top speed, like me? Just because there is something faster, does one automatically think they have to have it?

Some of the articles point to the power usages being high for certain filters like blur, radial and sharpening. Even on my oldie, I have no problem using those.

And you can get the RAM you want. I think the 27” are still for sale.

 

I went for a secondhand 2017 iMac manufactured in 2019 with 8GB RAM and 1TB Hybrid Drive. I upgraded the RAM to 32GB and strapped a 1TB SSD to the back, connected by Thunderbolt and installed the system on that. It runs really well and was just over 50% of the price of a 2020 iMac with similar spec.

 

Mark

Edited April 13, 2021 by M.Chapman

[MDM]

6 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I’m not positive that the 20/20 iMac with the Intel chip isn’t the way to go. My old 2012 iMac was plenty fast when I bought it, and from what I’ve read, the lasted Intel chip iMacs beat that. Exactly how fast of a machine does one need? As someone pointed out about a car (Geoff, I believe) do you need a car that goes 120mph in 60 seconds if you plan on driving 73-75 mph top speed, like me? Just because there is something faster, does one automatically think they have to have it?

Some of the articles point to the power usages being high for certain filters like blur, radial and sharpening. Even on my oldie, I have no problem using those.

And you can get the RAM you want. I think the 27” are still for sale.

Yes and no. What happens is that the software gets continuously upgraded to make use of the new hardware so you find that 5 years down the line you can’t use the latest version of Photoshop say. This is a major transition for Apple, not just a minor update. I  wouldn’t worry about scare stories of SSDs wearing out. If you are using the Photoshop scratch disk at all except in rare cases, then you have the wrong machine. 

[NYCat]

I always think it is worth it to get AppleCare. Their phone support is very kind and knowledgeable. They seem to be trained to provide a calm place to slowly sort things through. Of course, I am not technically knowledgeable and some of you may not need it.

 

Paulette

[Harry Harrison]

I think you're going for a laptop now Edo, it does seem difficult for anyone to recommend an affordable monitor to pair with a Mac Mini for photographic use, even if it is just for Alamy. I'm glad that Wim reposted his link to Arnaud Frich's site because I thought he seemed to talk a lot of sense and does seem to rationally discuss cheaper alternatives to Eizo, BenQ and wide gamut monitors in general. Navigation around the site is not quite as clear and well thought out as his reviews though.

 

In particular he seems to like the Dell P2419H, a slightly older incarnation of the Dell that you were considering but he does stress that it will need calibrating:

 

https://www.color-management-guide.com/dell-p2419h-monitor-review.html

 

He does definitely say that Eizo are the best of course but 'budget' screens are getting much better. If you don't need wide gamut (and he explains why you might not need to) then there are very good cheaper IPS panels around now, but they should be calibrated for best results.

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Harry Harrison

[Allan Bell]

14 hours ago, MDM said:

Yes and no. What happens is that the software gets continuously upgraded to make use of the new hardware so you find that 5 years down the line you can’t use the latest version of Photoshop say. This is a major transition for Apple, not just a minor update. I  wouldn’t worry about scare stories of SSDs wearing out. If you are using the Photoshop scratch disk at all except in rare cases, then you have the wrong machine. 

 

Hi Mick just to say that I have had no problems running the latest software on my late 2013  27" iMac. All I did a little while ago was add some memory up to 32GB. (maxed out).

Everything else is still original.

 

Allan

 

Maybe I have got the wrong end of the stick again.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Allan Bell

[MDM]

16 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Hi Mick just to say that I have had no problems running the latest software on my late 2013  27" iMac. All I did a little while ago was add some memory up to 32GB. (maxed out).

Everything else is still original.

 

Allan

 

Maybe I have got the wrong end of the stick again.

 

 

I didn't mean literally 5 years Allan. It was just an example of a principle that the software advances with the hardware and eventually new versions will not work on older computers. This is particularly the case for graphics applications. Photoshop and Lightroom now need a minimum of 2GB of VRAM and 8GB of RAM to even run. You can update the RAM in an iMac but not in a MacBook Pro and the VRAM is fixed for ever in both. Therefore I believe it is wise to build in plenty of room for comfort as it can't be changed later.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by MDM

[Ed Rooney]

I'm about to unbox my M1 Air. Will report later. 

 

Edwardo, formally of Spain 

[MDM]

3 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

I'm about to unbox my M1 Air. Will report later. 

 

Edwardo, formally of Spain 

 

Buena suerte.

 

You know there is a huge football match tonight in Liverpool -  the Champions League quarter final Liverpool against Real Madrid. It would normally be a mega occasion in the city except there are still no fans allowed in the stadiums. If Liverpool manage to overcome their 2 goal deficit from the first leg I would expect there will be some serious outdoor celebrations tonight though. 

[Ed Rooney]

Been at it for hours, one painful step after another. It will be tomorrow before I have anything worth reporting. 

[John Mitchell]

5 hours ago, MDM said:

 

I didn't mean literally 5 years Allan. It was just an example of a principle that the software advances with the hardware and eventually new versions will not work on older computers. This is particularly the case for graphics applications. Photoshop and Lightroom now need a minimum of 2GB of VRAM and 8GB of RAM to even run. You can update the RAM in an iMac but not in a MacBook Pro and the VRAM is fixed for ever in both. Therefore I believe it is wise to build in plenty of room for comfort as it can't be changed later.

 

 

Which is why I like much less expensive PC's. It's easy to add more RAM and other goodies. But I realize that people love their Macs. 😎

[spacecadet]

5 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Which is why I like much less expensive PC's. It's easy to add more RAM and other goodies. But I realize that people love their Macs. 😎

Too right.

I may need to max out mine as LR is getting a bit greedy of late. 4GB, £9.99 new.

Edited April 14, 2021 by spacecadet

[geogphotos]

Funny thing is that when it comes to cameras the consensus is that it doesn't matter it is the photographer that counts ( with obvious exceptions for very low quality cameras - and even then we have other outlets to sale). 

 

I suppose I am just a 'use what you have' person. And that good enough, especially if raised to very good enough. is all that is needed.

 

Let others fret about all the ins and outs of technology and the ultimate optimums. 

 

Most cameras ( see above), most monitors are going to allow you to produce a saleable  image. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by geogphotos

[John Mitchell]

1 minute ago, geogphotos said:

Funny thing is that when it comes to cameras the consensus is that it doesn't matter it is the photographer that counts ( with obvious exceptions for very low quality cameras - and even then we have other outlets to sale). 

 

I suppose I am just a 'use what you have' person. And that good enough, especially if raised to very good enough. is all that is needed.

 

Let others fret about all the ins and outs of technology and the ultimate optimums. 

 

Most cameras ( see above), most monitors are going to allow you to produce a saleable  image. 

 

My inexpensive -- and calibrated -- Samsung monitor has been serving me well for years. However, this has been an instructive thread. For instance, I now know what an IPS screen is.  I wouldn't mind one of those, although head-bobbing works as well.

[MizBrown]

11 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Which is why I like much less expensive PC's. It's easy to add more RAM and other goodies. But I realize that people love their Macs. 😎

 

I love my iMac, but I'm thinking my next machine maybe be in a metal case, with everything upgrade-able, and running Windows.  Windows looks better than it did over a decade ago when I worked on Windows machines.   My ex-landlord wants to buy my iMac when/if I'm ready to make this move. 

[John Mitchell]

15 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Too right.

I may need to max out mine as LR is getting a bit greedy of late. 4GB, £9.99 new.

 

Last year, I bought a refurbished DELL (looks brand new to me) desktop for a song. It has 16MB of RAM and is super fast.

Edited April 14, 2021 by John Mitchell

[John Mitchell]

2 minutes ago, MizBrown said:

 

I love my iMac, but I'm thinking my next machine maybe be in a metal case, with everything upgrade-able, and running Windows.  Windows looks better than it did over a decade ago when I worked on Windows machines.   My ex-landlord wants to buy my iMac when/if I'm ready to make this move. 

 

I recently added a 2TB hard drive (for storage) to my DELL It took about five minutes. Windows used to be a pain, but I've found Win 10 to be trouble-free.

[spacecadet]

11 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Last year, I bought a refurbished DELL (looks brand new to me) desktop for a song. It has 16MB of RAM and is super fast.

The sort of thing I'll be looking for when this 2009 model all-in-one (gift from a friend in 2014) goes to the small electronics recycling skip in the sky. In between I daresay I'll be back to my Dell Optiplex on XP for a bit. Bought university surplus in 2004 or 5. It's in a plastic bag in the garage.

Edited April 14, 2021 by spacecadet