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17 minutes ago, NYCat said:

I use SuperDuper for my bootable clone and other back-ups and updates. I do find it "easy" and get quick responses with any questions. Can't get rid of that Quote box that I added accidentally. Don't even know how I did it. So the Forum is more difficult for me than SuperDuper.

 

Paulette

 

 

Click on the cross (at the top left of the box ) which appears when you put your mouse over the box and hit Delete on the keyboard. I have not used SuperDuper. 

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3 hours ago, NYCat said:

I use SuperDuper for my bootable clone and other back-ups and updates. I do find it "easy" and get quick responses with any questions. Can't get rid of that Quote box that I added accidentally. Don't even know how I did it. So the Forum is more difficult for me than SuperDuper.

 

Paulette

 

It looks like SuperDuper is close to fully supporting bootable clones with Big Sur. They are currently providing a Beta version that they claim works. https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html It seems Apple's fully locked down system disk can only be duped and booted if it's copied and sealed with Apple's own code, for security reasons.

 

Mark

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15 hours ago, MDM said:

 

I am not clear about what is happening Marianne. It seems to work but there appear to be multiple issues with Big Sur. The link I posted was last updated on April 30, 2021, from their knowledge base and details issues with Big Sur, whereas on the website there is a banner that links to an article from Nov 30, 2020 that says it is fine.

 

Anyway I changed my post that you have quoted to "Since the reported issue for Big Sur bootables". It is very confusing and well beyond my knowledge and likely to stay like that for the foreseeable future. I am a dabbler with CCC, far from an expert. I like the program and would definitely recommend it as backup software. I think this whole discussion illustrates that CCC is a pretty complex program that needs quite a bit of background reading to understand how to use it properly.

 

I have been using CCC for ages. You can set up multiple backups. My most used BU starts at 5.30pm and backs up Duo one mirrored drive to my Duo two mirrored drive every day. There are two other BU's set up but I start those manually when they are needed. They could be set with a timed start and the discs used would need to be permanently connected whereas at the moment they are kept elsewhere and connected when needed.

 

As a matter of interest I used to use Time Machine but find CCC to be a better system personally.

 

Allan

 

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6 hours ago, MDM said:


I think you are going in the right direction there Betty. I didn’t realise you weren’t able to lift the new machine out of its box although the boxes often weigh as much as the iMacs. I expect asking somebody in a shop to do a manual install of your info and settings  could be expensive as it could be very time consuming and you would have to give them access to your passwords  It would be more likely that they would suggest using Migration Assistant. 

 

However, if you can manage to get somebody to help you get it out and plugged in, then a better bet might be to try Migration Assistant yourself. It should work without problems and the more stuff you don’t want that you remove from your old machine the better. Only call for help from the local guys with the transfer of information if you really need it. Don’t forget you have Apple Support on the phone as well. 
 

When I said caregiving wrecked my health, I meant it. I had to lock my bedroom door at night for safety. It was stressful for years, but the last two were a nightmare.  The stress affected my immune system and caused me to have systemic Candida infections (very rare) that made me very ill, and it attacked my respiratory system (even frightened my doctor at my low oxygen level) and my spine. I developed a collapse in parts of my spine that causes a lot of pain in mid 2017 during a particularly severe Candida infection. While these illnesses were happening, I wasn’t allowed to take to my bed to recover, and was getting about 5 hours sleep at night for the whole last year.

Surgical repair would mean inserting rods and screws and a year of recovery. I’ve been trying to avoid that and manage the pain with physical therapy to strengthen the supportive muscles. Lifting something heavy like the computer isn’t recommended. I was barely able to do it for the cleaning, but when I think of doing it again, my mind recoils.

I have a wonderful son-in-law who comes by when I need him to do things I can’t do. But I’m not demanding, and ask him to come by “at his convenience”. He has a demanding job and many things to do at his own home.  I’ve always been very independent, and asking anyone to do these things for me is very hard. Up to recently, I’ve always managed to take care of my wants and needs myself.

 

That’s why I’m so appreciative of your and others help. While you aren’t coming by my house to lift my computers, you are spending a lot of time thinking and figuring out how best to advise me, and that is worth all the physical help in the world.

A huge +1 to this forum.

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13 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

That’s why I’m so appreciative of your and others help. While you aren’t coming by my house to lift my computers, you are spending a lot of time thinking and figuring out how best to advise me, and that is worth all the physical help in the world.

A huge +1 to this forum.

 

Don't mention it Betty. I am still pretty much in lockdown mode (although that is starting to change now) and the forum has been a big part of my social life, as I have been spending most of my time on a computer. I learn and re-learn by helping people as well so it is not all one way as I do benefit. It is also really gratifying to hear that someone has benefitted and to be thanked of course - that feels good. 

 

So don't attempt to lift that computer. But, when you do get it out of the box and plugged in, I do suggest you start it up and use Migration Assistant as the easiest way to get the job done. There are a few ways to use Migration Assistant. One is just to have the two computers on the same wifi network. Another is to do a Time Machine backup to an external drive. I really don't think you need to pay someone to do this as it should be very straightforward. Definitely nothing to fear. 

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2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

It looks like SuperDuper is close to fully supporting bootable clones with Big Sur. They are currently providing a Beta version that they claim works. https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html It seems Apple's fully locked down system disk can only be duped and booted if it's copied and sealed with Apple's own code, for security reasons.

 

Mark

Tell me this. If you make a clone to a desktop HD through CCC or Super Duper, can you go through and delete everything but what you want transferred before the transfer to a new computer? Not that I’m smart enough to do this, because while I might delete a vey obvious name of something, I wouldn’t recognize an accompanying bit to get rid of.

More curious than anything.

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20 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Tell me this. If you make a clone to a desktop HD through CCC or Super Duper, can you go through and delete everything but what you want transferred before the transfer to a new computer? Not that I’m smart enough to do this, because while I might delete a vey obvious name of something, I wouldn’t recognize an accompanying bit to get rid of.

More curious than anything.

 

Forget the word clone - it is a total distraction and irrelevant to your current purpose. You would never use a clone for setting up a new Mac from an old Mac as a clone would contain the old operating system which won't even work on your new Mac. A clone is useful if you have an existing computer and just want to replace the entire disk, byte for byte (if you had a disk failure or some other serious problem).

 

Your best bet is to remove as much stuff as you want from the old computer and then run Migration Assistant. It will only install apps that work and it should put all your settings files in the right places.

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2 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Forget the word clone - it is a total distraction and irrelevant to your current purpose. You would never use a clone for setting up a new Mac from an old Mac as a clone would contain the old operating system which won't even work on your new Mac. A clone is useful if you have an existing computer and just want to replace the entire disk, byte for byte (if you had a disk failure or some other serious problem).

 

Your best bet is to remove as much stuff as you want from the old computer and then run Migration Assistant. It will only install apps that work. 

:lol: I’ll bet you feel like you’re trying to reign in a toddler, don’t you, Michael? Sorry for (again) making your hair stand on end.

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My hair was literally standing on end until I finally got to a barber recently - the last human contact I've had except for my lovely wife 😀. I have a selfie which I must dig out and change my avatar. But yes not so much a toddler as a 🐎 horse who needs blinkers to keep its mind on the task at hand. It's fine to be inquisitive but don't get distracted and especially don't get scared by all the stuff around. The task is not difficult at all 🏇

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56 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Tell me this. If you make a clone to a desktop HD through CCC or Super Duper, can you go through and delete everything but what you want transferred before the transfer to a new computer? Not that I’m smart enough to do this, because while I might delete a vey obvious name of something, I wouldn’t recognize an accompanying bit to get rid of.

More curious than anything.

 

To satisfy your curiosity only - Yes that's possible.

 

If (for example) you wanted to keep your old iMac files intact (so you don't accidentally delete something valuable) you could do the following.

 

1) Clone your old iMac Hardisk using Carbon Copy cloner to make an exact Bootable* copy on an External Hard Disk (*this disk is then suitabale for use with the Migration assistant).

2) With your External Hard Disk plugged into you old iMac, use Finder to delete unwanted files and apps from the External Hard Disk

3) Connect the External Harddisk to you new iMac

4) Run Migration Assistant on your new Mac to migrate what's left on your External HDD

 

But....

You will have to be careful what you delete to avoid messing things up for the migration to work properly (for example I wouldn't recommend deleting any Mail or iTunes folders). Many of these files/folders are a bit hidden, so you're probably not likely to delete them by accident, but it depends how aggressively you try to clean up your external hard disk...

 

So that's an answer to satisfy your curiosity! Would I do it that way? No. I suggest the following;

 

1) Connect your external HDD to your old iMac and make a full Time Machine backup of you old iMac to it (if you don't have one already)

2) Connect the Time Machine backup to your new iMac and run Migration Assistant on your new iMac and select Migrate from Time Machine Backup

3) Clean up your new iMac afterwards, safe in the knowledge you have a Time Machine backup and your old iMac to fall back on if needed.

 

The advantages of using a TM backup disk as a transfer method are

1) It's using Apple's approved method with only their software - so they should support you if you need

2) USB transfer may be faster than using Wi-Fi (depending on the speed of your external HDD)

3) It's the simplest to use

 

Alternatively, if you have a suitable adaptor cable it may be possible to directly connect your old and new iMac's directly and make the transfer. That's probably the fastest of all. But needs the right cable and I seem to recall reading that it's a bit more fussy over the Mac OS versions on each Mac and may ask for the old iMac to be updated to a later Mac OS first?

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
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Excellent, Mark.  Curiosity killed the cat, but I’m hiding under the bed right now.
I once visited the doctor I worked for who was recovering in the hospital from surgery for kidney stone removal.

I asked to see his incision. His eyebrows shot up,  but fully aware of my thirst for knowledge, he raised his shirt and peeled down the bandage.

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35 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

So that's an answer to satisfy your curiosity! Would I do it that way? No. I suggest the following;

 

1) Connect your external HDD to your old iMac and make a full Time Machine backup of you old iMac to it (if you don't have one already)

2) Connect the Time Machine backup to your new iMac and run Migration Assistant on your new iMac and select Migrate from Time Machine Backup )

3) Clean up your new iMac afterwards, safe in the knowledge you have a Time Machine backup and your old iMac to fall back on if needed.

 

The advantages of using a TM backup disk as a transfer method are

1) It's using Apple's approved method with only their software - so they should support you if you need

2) USB transfer may be faster than using Wi-Fi (depending on the speed of your external HDD)

3) It's the simplest to use

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Excellent, Mark.  Curiosity killed the cat, but I’m hiding under the bed right now.
 

 

 

You can come out now Betty. Now ignore the rest of Mark's post and do as he says in the bit I have quoted above except don't connect the external drive (2 above). First start up the new Mac and follow the instructions until the window that asks if you want to use  Migration Assistant pops up when you are close to the end of the install. Then connect the external drive and follow the instructions. 

Edited by MDM
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1 hour ago, MDM said:

You can come out now Betty. Now ignore the rest of Mark's post and do as he says in the bit I have quoted above except don't connect the external drive (2 above). First start up the new Mac and follow the instructions until the window that asks if you want to use  Migration Assistant pops up when you are close to the end of the install. Then connect the external drive and follow the instructions. 

I don't think it matters if the drive is connected before Migration Assistant is started or not. It searches for the drive. Or have I misunderstood your point?

I think the OS will already have be installed on a new iMac. If so I think the Migration Assistant option pops up very early on (3rd screen?) after switch on?

 

Mark

 

 

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I use both Carbon Copy Cloner (three tasks -- only one is the backup for the system, the other two are copies of my photo files) and Time Machine.  I suggest that you set up Time Machine to make a copy of just your OS and files on the hard drive/SSD drive and make backups of your photos with CCC. 

 

My mail is GMail and is stored on the Google server and is read from the server via IMAP in Mail.app (current default, I believe) rather than POP (copied onto my machine).  So all my mail is going to be safe until I delete it.   My contacts are stored with GMail/Google and my phone (don't have an iPhone, so these are separate from my iMac). 

 

Since a lot of install programs scatter files around, unless you have a uninstall program, bits and pieces will survive in various directories, generally (but not always) harmlessly.   I think I suggested just reinstalling programs you know you use.   If you've lost the activation codes, go to the web sites and log in and retrieve them (for the DXO programs and for Capture One if you have that).   I keep the mail giving the activation codes in a separate mail file.  

 

The advantage of a completely clean install is you don't have stray bits hanging around.  I use AppCleaner for removing apps. 

 

I also recommend iStat Menus for keeping an eye on what's happening with your machine, but I may be more technical than you.

 

Some applications can be removed by simply dragging the icon in Applications into the trash, but not all.   You want to keep the newer versions of the standard apps on your new iMac.  

 

Also, a further tip -- if you have been shutting your machine down at night, it's probably better to lock the screen at night.  There are various clean up processes that run at night, especially on fresh installs.

 

After you're up and running, let the machine update itself to the latest OS and let programs update, too (the Apple programs will do this through the App Store).

 

You can do this in a couple of different ways.  All of them will work.  You don't want to replace your new OS and programs with older ones.  TimeMachine is great for woopsies as you can find files you deleted by mistake fast.  Carbon Copy Cloner is great for basic backups (automatic or otherwise) and bootable backups for Intel processor machines.

 

Hiring it done is possible, but not everyone can do what they say they can do, or will set the machine up the way you want it. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

To satisfy your curiosity only - Yes that's possible.

 

If (for example) you wanted to keep your old iMac files intact (so you don't accidentally delete something valuable) you could do the following.

 

1) Clone your old iMac Hardisk using Carbon Copy cloner to make an exact Bootable* copy on an External Hard Disk (*this disk is then suitabale for use with the Migration assistant).

2) With your External Hard Disk plugged into you old iMac, use Finder to delete unwanted files and apps from the External Hard Disk

3) Connect the External Harddisk to you new iMac

4) Run Migration Assistant on your new Mac to migrate what's left on your External HDD

 

But....

You will have to be careful what you delete to avoid messing things up for the migration to work properly (for example I wouldn't recommend deleting any Mail or iTunes folders). Many of these files/folders are a bit hidden, so you're probably not likely to delete them by accident, but it depends how aggressively you try to clean up your external hard disk...

 

So that's an answer to satisfy your curiosity! Would I do it that way? No. I suggest the following;

 

1) Connect your external HDD to your old iMac and make a full Time Machine backup of you old iMac to it (if you don't have one already)

2) Connect the Time Machine backup to your new iMac and run Migration Assistant on your new iMac and select Migrate from Time Machine Backup

3) Clean up your new iMac afterwards, safe in the knowledge you have a Time Machine backup and your old iMac to fall back on if needed.

 

The advantages of using a TM backup disk as a transfer method are

1) It's using Apple's approved method with only their software - so they should support you if you need

2) USB transfer may be faster than using Wi-Fi (depending on the speed of your external HDD)

3) It's the simplest to use

 

Alternatively, if you have a suitable adaptor cable it may be possible to directly connect your old and new iMac's directly and make the transfer. That's probably the fastest of all. But needs the right cable and I seem to recall reading that it's a bit more fussy over the Mac OS versions on each Mac and may ask for the old iMac to be updated to a later Mac OS first?

 

Mark

 

 

2 hours ago, MDM said:

 

You can come out now Betty. Now ignore the rest of Mark's post and do as he says in the bit I have quoted above except don't connect the external drive (2 above). First start up the new Mac and follow the instructions until the window that asks if you want to use  Migration Assistant pops up when you are close to the end of the install. Then connect the external drive and follow the instructions. 

 

 

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

Thanks for that!

 

Mark

 

Don't mention it Mark. I don't know if you are offended or just joking. No offence was intended  but I do have to wonder, given Betty's clear level of potential confusion, if the initial complex part of that post is actually helpful. I am boggled by the idea of doing a clone and then deleting files from the clone by reattaching it to the old Mac. That sounds very complicated. OK you were trying to answer Betty's question but a simple answer would be yes it's possible but a very ill advised way to do things as you went on to say. And the bit at the end about connecting the two Macs directly. Why mention something that is complex and possibly unworkable as well? Remember Betty is a self-professed technophobe and she is much more confused than she needs to be.  So I was just suggesting focusing on the simple and sensible part which you explained clearly - use the MA. 

 

The reason I suggested not plugging the drive in until the MA dialog pops up was because I was thinking about what chaos might happen if a bootable drive was attached at startup. Thinkng about that, it would not matter as the new computer will not try to start on an older system in any case. All this stuff about bootable drives is moot for Betty's new Mac anyway as it has a T2 chip which prevents booting from an external drive unless you modify the settings first in recovery mode to turn that off. 

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37 minutes ago, MizBrown said:

but I may be more technical than you.

 

 

 

I don't think there are any arguments about that MizBrown.  😀

 

Check out about T2 chips on Intel Macs. 

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4 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

I don't think there are any arguments about that MizBrown.  😀

 

Check out about T2 chips on Intel Macs. 

 

Ah, so it won't boot from an external drive unless that's changed deliberately. 

 

I think I'm more technical than  Betty but not as technical as you.

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13 minutes ago, MizBrown said:

 

Ah, so it won't boot from an external drive unless that's changed deliberately. 

 

I think I'm more technical than  Betty but not as technical as you.

          

 

I'm not always as up to date as I am at the moment but I have been keeping an eye on where everything is going as there is big change afoot. I've also been spending a lot of time on my computer and contributing to this and Ed's threads has kept me on my toes. I like to get it right if I am advising or commenting as well - doesn't always happen though.    

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I did call the people who cleaned my older Mac, and was told they could do a clean install for $75 more or less. Not over $100 for sure. That’s a reasonable price, but I’m not sure if I can trust them to do it the way I want. I will think about it.

I asked if I should go through the setups steps on the new first, and he said no.

Of course, I’ll need my son-in-law to load them both up in any case, depending on when he has time. Once he does that, the guy at “U break I fix” will carry them in for me, load them back in my car after.

Still not sure...if I do that, what information do I need to give them?

Name of the new Mac

Adobe password?

Mac password that I want created?

What else?

Then a list of the files I want moved over which are? (From the Library)

mail

Music

calendars

keychain

safari

Application Support?

How about Favorites?

Bookmarks?

BTW, MzBrown, you are head and shoulders more computer savvy than I.

Edited by Betty LaRue
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16 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I did call the people who cleaned my older Mac, and was told they could do a clean install for $75 more or less. Not over $100 for sure. That’s a reasonable price, but I’m not sure if I can trust them to do it the way I want. I will think about it.

I asked if I should go through the setups steps on the new first, and he said no.

Of course, I’ll need my son-in-law to load them both up in any case, depending on when he has time. Once he does that, the guy at “U break I fix” will carry them in for me, load them back in my car after.

Still not sure...if I do that, what information do I need to give them?

Name of the new Mac

Adobe password?

Mac password that I want created?

What else?

Then a list of the files I want moved over which are? (From the Library)

mail

Music

calendars

keychain

safari

Application Support?

How about Favorites?

Bookmarks?

BTW, MzBrown, you are head and shoulders more computer savvy than I.

 

I would not advise that at all Betty. You are making something simple incredibly complicated. It is totally unnecessary as Migration Assistant will do it for you. As I said, when I first suggested doing it manually, I thought you knew a lot more than you now seem to do about it and I didn't realise how stressed out you might become about it. Had I known then I would have said definitely use Migration Assistant as it is simple and entirely straightforward. And that is what I advise now. 

 

But if you decide to do it that way, then you will need to give them your whatever information they request. I could not possibly say what they would need. 

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1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

I would not advise that at all Betty. You are making something simple incredibly complicated. It is totally unnecessary as Migration Assistant will do it for you. As I said, when I first suggested doing it manually, I thought you knew a lot more than you now seem to do about it and I didn't realise how stressed out you might become about it. Had I known then I would have said definitely use Migration Assistant as it is simple and entirely straightforward. And that is what I advise now. 

 

But if you decide to do it that way, then you will need to give them your whatever information they request. I could not possibly say what they would need. 

 

Given that you're not comfortable with doing a clean install for various reasons, I think Migration Assistant will give you what you need.   Nothing is going to break the machine.  I would have had it up and running by now because the return clock is ticking if there are any serious manufacturing defects with it.   I migrated an Android phone's files and info into my first iPad (mini 4 if I'm remembering correctly).  Probably did Migration Assistant for the Mac Mini to iMac move, just happened so long ago I can't really remember. 

 

You'll really own the computer if you do it yourself, with some help from the forum members.  $50 for the work is reasonable, but a lot of times, guys try to mystify the work they do for older women.  I've had people tell me I couldn't install hard drives in my first Mac after I'd rebuilt Windows machines for a social services organization I worked for.  You need to be careful that they don't make you more nervous about the machine rather than less.  One trick is rattling off instructions too fast to actually understand. 

 

Apple generally has some decent books on their machines and operating systems.   You can find them in the Books app.  If you put the books on your iPad, you can read as you go along.  A couple of them are free; the MacOS Big Sur book is $3.99 (The Complete Beginners and Seniors Essential User Guide on MacOS 11 Big Sur for Mac Book and iMac Users.

 

My first copy of the free iMac book was in Spanish.  I've just bought the $3.99 book and downloaded the free iMac Essentials, which has been updated to Big Sur. 

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On 11/05/2021 at 21:51, MDM said:

OK you were trying to answer Betty's question but a simple answer would be yes it's possible but a very ill advised way to do things as you went on to say.

 

Thanks for telling me how I should answer Betty's questions. I'll let Betty be the arbiter of whether she found my answer helpful or not.

 

On 11/05/2021 at 19:00, Betty LaRue said:

Excellent, Mark.  Curiosity killed the cat, but I’m hiding under the bed right now.

 

On 11/05/2021 at 21:51, MDM said:

And the bit at the end about connecting the two Macs directly. Why mention something that is complex and possibly unworkable as well? Remember Betty is a self-professed technophobe and she is much more confused than she needs to be.

 

Remember? Quite early in this thread I recommended that Betty used MA but you immediately suggested otherwise. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14221-need-a-new-imac/?do=findComment&comment=283814. This whole thread could have been much shorter...

 

Footnote: With the right cable connecting 2 iMacs can work well. Boot the old iMac in Target disk mode and the new one's Migration Assistant will find it. Transfer is then super quick. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1443/mac

 

Mark

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50 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Thanks for telling me how I should answer Betty's questions. I'll let Betty be the arbiter of whether she found my answer helpful or not.

 

 

 

Remember? Quite early in this thread I recommended that betty used MA but you immediately suggested otherwise. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14221-need-a-new-imac/?do=findComment&comment=283814. This whole thread could have been much shorter...

 

Footnote: With the right cable connecting 2 iMacs can work well. Boot the old iMac in Target disk mode and the new one's Migration Assistant will find it. Transfer is then super quick. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1443/mac

 

Mark


Looks like I have offended you. It was not intentional so apologies if I did. It was meant jokingly. I was simply advocating simplicity. 
 

As I have said several times now, had I realised quite how much difficulty Betty would have with the whole process and she has not even started yet, I would have advocated the Migration Assistant also although I am not sure that that would have shortened the thread as that assumes that Betty would take the advice on board which is clearly not a given. 
 

I also have no doubt you are correct about the speed of transfer of data if you connect two Macs together in Target Disk mode but that is adding more complexity which is not really what is needed here I would think. 

Edited by MDM
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