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7 hours ago, Colin Woods said:

I loved my K1000 as well - simple, great meter that gave me some of my best exposed slides, and bulletproof - you could bang your tent pegs in with it.  Some of the Pentax DSLR are excellent, but I am too invested in Nikon DSLR to consider changing.

Yes, it's straight forwardness as a camera made it so good to learn the basics. I first used one at school in media studies where I learned to process black and white film. I was 14 then, and at the end of that year my Dad bought me a second-hand K1000. I actually still have mine but it eventually started to underexpose so I think the light meter started to fail, but while it was working it produced excellent exposures like you describe. I only shot prints with it and still have most of those.

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7 hours ago, MDM said:

I don't think it is a great idea to judge a camera system or a camera on the basis of great shots by an expert photographer or brand ambassador. A great photographer will be able to get great shots with the end of a bottle. Olympus are going through some mega changes at the moment so I would keep that in mind if considering Olympus. I had Olympus OM SLR kit but they stopped making the OM kit back in the 90s leaving a lot of photographers high and dry with a dead end system. That is when I went to Nikon.

 

I think the future is going to be bright for the Nikon Z system as they are putting a lot into it and some of it is cutting edge at a seriousy good price. As I mentioned above, Nikon have continued to provide firmware updates for the Z6 and Z7 cameras, even since they released the Z6II and Z67ii so one needs to be sure one is reading up to date and unbiased reviews. For example, the AF tracking has improved a lot over the original release. Check this YouTube DPReview of Z6 firmware improvements out (although even that is not up to date).

 

Thanks Michael. Yes I think the future looks bright for Nikon Z. Do you think you will switch over at some point?

 

It is good to know about the firmware improvements. I watched the video link you provided. I also watched another by a wildlife photographer who agrees that the tracking system has definitely improved with 3.0. He still found some problems though with birds in flight (especially initially locking onto the subject), as opposed to birds on the ground. He also found the eye tracking worked well for animals such as his lighter coloured pet cat, but not so much his black cat where it had trouble discerning the face, and that the eye tracking didn't work well when he was photographing a burrowing owl either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lJOHTNYhbU&pbjreload=101  But I think these are the kinds of things Nikon will keep improving with over time. I'd be interested to see if they produce a Z version of the D500 which is geared towards wildlife. The Z6 and Z7 look exceptionally good for landscape photography.

 

With regard to Olympus, Andy Rouse is not a brand ambassador as he discusses in his blog post when he switched over to Olympus https://www.andyrouse.co.uk/index.php?eb=1&id=109&fbclid=IwAR1r_BAIM-hscTVOmO2MRauiIFddW1iNxUFVG4n79oggCl8EuDPvBHuvM8Q  He just genuinely loves the system as it meets his specific photographic needs which are all about wildlife. I also watched a video put out by Wex on it which was a review of its functions, which is where I learned about the in-camera live keystone corrections etc. It is probably too big a camera for my hands, but I just enjoyed learning about it as seems quite unique and original.

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I have not read all of the responses to this thread, but I will say this:  NIKON is the F Mount and any change to that is a breach of a promise

that they made years ago to users.  I was CANON Pro services member 0002, worked with three F-1's and FD glass from 16 to 500 and when 

CANON called me to offer me a complete AF system, with a different mount, I said no thanks and I went back to NIKON.  In other words I have zero interest in the

Z System.  Leitz has always made great equipment, I worked with most of the modern film Leica's from M2's to M6's,  I miss my 21mm 3.4, but $6,000

to $10,000 a body is not real.  I remember when Jim Marshal needed money  for rent and I bought one of his M2's from him, wish I had bought

his portrait of Mick Jagger instead.  

 

FYI: Most of the images that I have on Alamy were made with NIKON bodies and lenses, both film and digital.  I still dearly love my D800's.

 

I have not held or used a NIKON Z system body, but if it is not  "F mount it is not a NIKON" to me.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Chuck

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There is a difference here, Canon came out with the EOS system where none of their existing FD lenses could possibly work, not just because of the different mount but also because of the different flange focal distance. FD cameras and lenses were consigned to history at a stroke.

 

Leica have continued with their M-mount and all credit to them for doing so but you need to be very well-heeled to buy into it. Of course professionals use it but I have a feeling that the majority of their customers are not professionals. However they also have their new L-mount for mirrorless cameras in association with Panasonic and Sigma, and their S-mount medium format range.

 

Nikon had to go mirrorless and so they needed the new Z mount, you can at least use F mount lenses via an adapter. If they didn't then they wouldn't survive, just look at the recent deal between Associated Press and Sony. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

There is a difference here, Canon came out with the EOS system where none of their existing FD lenses could possibly work, not just because of the different mount but also because of the different flange focal distance. FD cameras and lenses were consigned to history at a stroke.

 

Leica have continued with their M-mount and all credit to them for doing so but you need to be very well-heeled to buy into it. Of course professionals use it but I have a feeling that the majority of their customers are not professionals. However they also have their new L-mount for mirrorless cameras in association with Panasonic and Sigma, and their S-mount medium format range.

 

Nikon had to go mirrorless and so they needed the new Z mount, you can at least use F mount lenses via an adapter. If they didn't then they wouldn't survive, just look at the recent deal between Associated Press and Sony. 

 

 

 

Nikon would be heading the way of the dinosaurs if they had not produced a professional full frame mirrorless system to compete with Sony and Canon. The Z mount opens up a whole new world of optics and lens design. As you say, most F mount lenses can be used with the adapter. The IBIS works with older lenses. instantly turning non-VR lenses into VR lenses. Nikon is now at the cutting edge with small camera video as well. The Nikon flash system is totally compatible with the Z system. What is not to like?

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7 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

Thanks Michael. Yes I think the future looks bright for Nikon Z. Do you think you will switch over at some point?

 

It is good to know about the firmware improvements. I watched the video link you provided. I also watched another by a wildlife photographer who agrees that the tracking system has definitely improved with 3.0. He still found some problems though with birds in flight (especially initially locking onto the subject), as opposed to birds on the ground. He also found the eye tracking worked well for animals such as his lighter coloured pet cat, but not so much his black cat where it had trouble discerning the face, and that the eye tracking didn't work well when he was photographing a burrowing owl either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lJOHTNYhbU&pbjreload=101  But I think these are the kinds of things Nikon will keep improving with over time. I'd be interested to see if they produce a Z version of the D500 which is geared towards wildlife. The Z6 and Z7 look exceptionally good for landscape photography.

 

With regard to Olympus, Andy Rouse is not a brand ambassador as he discusses in his blog post when he switched over to Olympus https://www.andyrouse.co.uk/index.php?eb=1&id=109&fbclid=IwAR1r_BAIM-hscTVOmO2MRauiIFddW1iNxUFVG4n79oggCl8EuDPvBHuvM8Q  He just genuinely loves the system as it meets his specific photographic needs which are all about wildlife. I also watched a video put out by Wex on it which was a review of its functions, which is where I learned about the in-camera live keystone corrections etc. It is probably too big a camera for my hands, but I just enjoyed learning about it as seems quite unique and original.

 

I am already using both DSLR and mirrorless Nikons Sally. I still prefer the DSLR for low light work for the fast AF (e.g. weddings although there are none at the moment) and for fast action (dogs, horses)  for the tracking capability, and will do so for the foreseeable future. I got a Z7 kit just after they came out as I needed a light body and lens for walkabout stuff without a tripod. To be able to shoot confidently at 1/30 second handheld with a 45MP camera is amazing. 

 

I don't know if they will release a pro quality DX. I have never used a D500. However, I do wonder if these are necessary at all, as with a high MP FF camera and a quality lens you can crop to the same size and quality in post. 

 

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54 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

I am already using both DSLR and mirrorless Nikons Sally. I still prefer the DSLR for low light work for the fast AF (e.g. weddings although there are none at the moment) and for fast action (dogs, horses)  for the tracking capability, and will do so for the foreseeable future. I got a Z7 kit just after they came out as I needed a light body and lens for walkabout stuff without a tripod. To be able to shoot confidently at 1/30 second handheld with a 45MP camera is amazing. 

 

I don't know if they will release a pro quality DX. I have never used a D500. However, I do wonder if these are necessary at all, as with a high MP FF camera and a quality lens you can crop to the same size and quality in post. 

 

Just interested, do you use your existing lenses with an adapter for the Z7 or new lenses ?

 

Carol

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7 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said:

I have not read all of the responses to this thread, but I will say this:  NIKON is the F Mount and any change to that is a breach of a promise

that they made years ago to users.  I was CANON Pro services member 0002, worked with three F-1's and FD glass from 16 to 500 and when 

CANON called me to offer me a complete AF system, with a different mount, I said no thanks and I went back to NIKON.  In other words I have zero interest in the

Z System.  Leitz has always made great equipment, I worked with most of the modern film Leica's from M2's to M6's,  I miss my 21mm 3.4, but $6,000

to $10,000 a body is not real.  I remember when Jim Marshal needed money  for rent and I bought one of his M2's from him, wish I had bought

his portrait of Mick Jagger instead.  

 

FYI: Most of the images that I have on Alamy were made with NIKON bodies and lenses, both film and digital.  I still dearly love my D800's.

 

I have not held or used a NIKON Z system body, but if it is not  "F mount it is not a NIKON" to me.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Chuck

 

 

Chuck, I am running over the very same dilemma …

 

Nikon for some 40 plus years, an old lens will fits the latest body, given its limitations of no autofocus, etc.  Nikon is not about a camera and a lens it is about a camera system, is the way I have looked at it over the years, you have future-proofed yourself and update the elements you want, be that lens or body.

 

So like Chuck I am in pickle with the new Nikon Z System …..

 

But I do not want to be anti-progress, if I was I would still be using film  …. But I was never ever going to consider a move from Nikon during the popularity of mirror-less in recent years … none would fit my Nikon System.  Plus, in the back of my mind I had a believe that Nikon would get there.

 

They have with the Nikon Z … I have now bought the Z6 and I will be honest the jury was out for a long time … more than once it was almost sold. 

 

Here is where I am today … recent figures and accounts plus research show that mirror-less will be the future, but I am not sure how long this 'transition' will be.

 

So, I do not see me selling the DSLRs … No, they still work well, I have a range of lenses that cover my needs – but the quality of the Z6 with its weight and speed appeals … the FTZ Adaptor works … from 14mm to 400mm I get can use them on the Z6.

 

For me the Z6 is simply another element in the Nikon camera system … I only have one Z Lens; it is outstanding in quality and I may buy another – if only for the video which it excels at over my DSLR – and the requirement for video is growing.

 

Nikon have long and hard thought about the Z System … it is the ideal ‘accompaniment’ to the DSLR and the F Lens as we go through this transition … for the rest of my working life I can see me using the best piece of kit for the job … be that a DSLR or a Mirror-Less with the FTZ … or a very slowing growing number of Z lenses.

 

Finally, trust me we will not be having this conversation in 40 years’ time.

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4 hours ago, MDM said:

I am already using both DSLR and mirrorless Nikons Sally. I still prefer the DSLR for low light work for the fast AF (e.g. weddings although there are none at the moment) and for fast action (dogs, horses)  for the tracking capability, and will do so for the foreseeable future. I got a Z7 kit just after they came out as I needed a light body and lens for walkabout stuff without a tripod. To be able to shoot confidently at 1/30 second handheld with a 45MP camera is amazing. 

 

I don't know if they will release a pro quality DX. I have never used a D500. However, I do wonder if these are necessary at all, as with a high MP FF camera and a quality lens you can crop to the same size and quality in post. 

 

That's great you have both systems running Michael. I think the thing is that both mounts have their pros and cons and are different beasts. I only recently thought about mirrorless and that's why Marvin's original post was of interest to me. I have small hands and going full frame F mount DSLR has never really felt like a viable option for me. I felt I was limited to DX. But the advent of full frame mirrorless opens up a new world to me. Many people will like it for the comparable lightness and portability. As I personally really like Nikon and find them intuitive to use, and the fact that from what I've read their menu system translates over to their mirrorless cameras, the Z system does seem like something worth considering for me down the track. It's good you can run both systems side by side and also see what keeps changing with the firmware updates and how it all progresses.

 

I won't ditch my Nikon D5200 either (unless it actually dies). I have several good lens combinations with that. I know they work well and I'll gladly keep using them while I can. But if the D5200 does die or I get to the point I think I can buy into the Z system (or other mirrorless system) I will definitely consider it for the benefits that exist in those systems. Pentax may be able to survive sticking with DSLR, but Nikon as one of the biggest players had to compete with Sony, Fujifilm and others if they wanted to maintain their market share. But yes it will be interesting to see what they do with their F mounts in the future, and I understand the loyalty people have to that system.

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I'm sticking with the my Nikon DSLRs certainly for the time being. I have so many lenses and bits and bobs that I have accumulated over the years that the change to mirrorless would be too expensive at the moment. The Z series looks lovely and I'm sure they are excellent but they don't really give me anything extra that I need that the D850's don't already give me.

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6 hours ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

Just interested, do you use your existing lenses with an adapter for the Z7 or new lenses ?

 

Carol

 

I tend to use the Z lenses as I still have my DSLR kit for my F mount lenses. As Matt says, there is no problem using F mount lenses. The adapter makes the setup a little bigger and heavier so there is some loss of that mirrorless benefit. I did get one with the kit when I bought it but rarely use it. Stick a heavy F mount zoom on it and there is no weight benefit at all. 

 

If anyone is buying into the Z system, I think it is definitely worth buying the adapter and 24-70 F4 Z mount lens as a kit, as it is much more expensive to buy them separately. I would suggest that the 24-70 F4 could well be a top candidate for the best quality/price lens anywhere for any system. It makes for a very high quality carry anywhere kit, just a little over 1 kg so should not stress anyone. 

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3 hours ago, Sally R said:

 

That's great you have both systems running Michael. I think the thing is that both mounts have their pros and cons and are different beasts. I only recently thought about mirrorless and that's why Marvin's original post was of interest to me. I have small hands and going full frame F mount DSLR has never really felt like a viable option for me. I felt I was limited to DX. But the advent of full frame mirrorless opens up a new world to me. Many people will like it for the comparable lightness and portability. As I personally really like Nikon and find them intuitive to use, and the fact that from what I've read their menu system translates over to their mirrorless cameras, the Z system does seem like something worth considering for me down the track. It's good you can run both systems side by side and also see what keeps changing with the firmware updates and how it all progresses.

 

I won't ditch my Nikon D5200 either (unless it actually dies). I have several good lens combinations with that. I know they work well and I'll gladly keep using them while I can. But if the D5200 does die or I get to the point I think I can buy into the Z system (or other mirrorless system) I will definitely consider it for the benefits that exist in those systems. Pentax may be able to survive sticking with DSLR, but Nikon as one of the biggest players had to compete with Sony, Fujifilm and others if they wanted to maintain their market share. But yes it will be interesting to see what they do with their F mounts in the future, and I understand the loyalty people have to that system.

 

I don't think there is any con to the Z mount really Sally. It has been designed to future proof the Z system. I don't know much at all about lens technology but the mount is what the real techies rave about in terms of lens design.

 

As far as small hands go, not all full frame Nikon cameras are monsters. There are several full frame cameras in the Nikon line up that are not particularly large either - the D750 is only 750g. Even the venerable D850 is not particularly large - just a few g over 1 kg in fact. It depends as much on the lens you put on it really how it handles and how heavy the setup will be. 

 

I think Nikon will go on making DSLRs for some time to come until the market for them vanishes. Nikon have a history of continuing to make older gear. They are still making some AIS lenses as far as I know and it is not long since they stopped making their last flagship SLR, the F6.

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1 hour ago, wilkopix said:

I'm sticking with the my Nikon DSLRs certainly for the time being. I have so many lenses and bits and bobs that I have accumulated over the years that the change to mirrorless would be too expensive at the moment. The Z series looks lovely and I'm sure they are excellent but they don't really give me anything extra that I need that the D850's don't already give me.

 

I agree with that sentiment. The D850 is the ultimate DSLR I think. If you don't need mirrorless then sticking with the D850 is eminently sensible. I won't be disposing of mine anytime soon and intend to use it for the foreseeable future for sure. The image quality of the Z7 and D850 are pretty much identical - truly excellent. The D850 is definitely way better in low light (AF speed) and for action - superior AF tracking / burst shooting.


I bought into the Z system but I did have a good reason at the time. I had a temporary injury around Christmas 2018 and couldn't carry my DSLR kit in any way comfortably so I consoled myself with a Z7 kit which had just arrived on the market. Having such a light set up with the IBIS opened up a new world for me where I no longer needed to carry a tripod for landscape photography a lot of the time.

 

However, one area where the Z series really excels is video. Two years ago I had no intention of learning video and knew almost nothing but I have spent a lot of time since the beginning of the first lockdown learning to shoot and edit video to a pretty high level of expertise now, especially the editing. I learn very well from books and video tutorials so this has been very inspiring doing something totally different. It has made a huge difference to my experience of lockdown in fact. So I am glad I bought into Z system. It would be very hard now to choose if I had to pick one or the other. 

 

 

 

 

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On 07/02/2021 at 18:18, MDM said:

I had Olympus OM SLR kit but they stopped making the OM kit back in the 90s leaving a lot of photographers high and dry with a dead end system. That is when I went to Nikon.

 

I think the future is going to be bright for the Nikon Z system as they are putting a lot into it and some of it is cutting edge at a seriousy good price.

 

 

I think Olympus saw that the OM range had no real future - building an AF-based system to appeal to news and sports photogs was gong to be both expensive with a small market share. They felt that starting from scratch and designing specifically for digital was the way to go, especially the optics.

 

The OM 35mm system is no less redundant now than it was then; and while you can use legacy F-mount lenses on their DSLRs this has become less and less workable as models have changed.

 

In the end it's about buying the most appropriate tools for one's intended purposes (finances permitting). I think the market is best served by a form of competition where each brand has distinct offerings, instead of multiple vendors all chasing the most popular models/format/feature list at any one time.

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50 minutes ago, Simon E said:

 

I think Olympus saw that the OM range had no real future - building an AF-based system to appeal to news and sports photogs was gong to be both expensive with a small market share. They felt that starting from scratch and designing specifically for digital was the way to go, especially the optics.

 

The OM 35mm system is no less redundant now than it was then; and while you can use legacy F-mount lenses on their DSLRs this has become less and less workable as models have changed.

 

 


The light meters went on both my OM1 and OM2n so I was left with OM lenses and no option to buy new bodies in the late 90s because they had stopped making them. That qualifies as redundant in my estimation. Yes the lenses could be used on other cameras with adapters but I just started again with Nikon. Apart from a brief flirtation with Canon, I have never looked back. 

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8 hours ago, MDM said:


The light meters went on both my OM1 and OM2n so I was left with OM lenses and no option to buy new bodies in the late 90s because they had stopped making them. That qualifies as redundant in my estimation. Yes the lenses could be used on other cameras with adapters but I just started again with Nikon. Apart from a brief flirtation with Canon, I have never looked back. 

 

When they were current products I had an OM1, OM1n and OM2. Only the OM1 ever failed, and like you, the light meter. In those times it was repaired by Olympus. Later I moved to Canon, Sony, then Nikon.

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