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4 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

I recently saw a revealing interview with a young woman who fell for the QAnon conspiracy theories. She said that she was brought up to "do what she was told," so when she heard all the BS, she just assumed that it was all true. Here's the thing, you can't condition people (politically, religiously, nationalistically, etc.) and then expect them to develop critical thinking skills.

 

The US former slave states and some  others have Pauline Christianity rather than the Christianity that Jesus preached.  They're taught to trust and obey people the Lord put over them.  And there's tremendous credulity over things people say.   I can watch someone like Jim Bakker or Kenneth Copeland and it's obvious bullshit and a very good scam if the preacher can avoid getting caught boinking the help or hiring renters, and even then they often grovel a bit and keep going.  (I knew of New Age people who were pro Trump, too, one an astrologer and the other an herbalist). 

 

Most political unrest is over power struggles.  Words like "democracy" and "freedom" get waved around to get the US to fund one side over another.   The funny thing about Ortega that US recreational and academic Marxists and the far right were united in not liking him.   If anything, he's middle of the road.   He's rough enough not to back down and resign over people tearing up the streets and shooting 24 cops.  The cops would have killed more if they'd been aiming at people, but five people died in Jinotoga, and around 350 (both sides) died from late April to July or so.   Jan. 6 was just another Wednesday for a lot of the world. 

 

A US-born expat couple here believed the QAnon stuff.   My British friend's husband had worked in Las Vegas as a contractor and heard all about how Trump lied and cheated from a hotel owner there and tried to explain that to them.   The expat guy refused to care or believe something that was emotionally les satisfying than believing Trump.  In his case, it was from a general hostility to any regular authority and trusting what he thought was a businessman over professional politicians.  The couple moved back to the US, and appear to really believe that the liberal elite molest children. 

 

Getting the Pauline evangelicals on board for Trump was genius.   And being convinced that all politicians lie made it easier to excuse Trump's lies.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, John Morrison said:

Even in 2021, I don't think an avowed atheist would be voted into the US government. I wonder how many people in public office have had to hide their unbelief...

Starting with George Washington.   I would be surprised if Bernie Saunders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez weren't at least agnostics. 

Edited by MizBrown
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9 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

The 45th president did a good job of hiding his as well.

 

Difference between being discreet and out and out lying with liars who were conning the faithful.

 

Jefferson was a Deist.  Tom Paine was an atheist as was at least one of the generals in Vermont.

 

Jefferson wrote: “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”

 

Then you have Samuel Johnson' crack about the loudest welps for liberty coming from the drivers of negros.

 

Edited by MizBrown
needed some quotes
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1 hour ago, BradleyPhoto said:

Although bail conditions prevented him legally carrying out further work there which is arguably censorship. If nothing else, he should be pursuing whether it was an unlawful arrest.

Fair comment. He could have refused the condition- admittedly a Hobson's choice as it would presumably have meant his remaining in custody. You agree to what gets you released, right or no.

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Andy has posted tonight that charges and bail conditions have been dropped. As for the rest of us though, always be prudent.

 

Richard.

 

 

Edited by Richard Baker
Grammar
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30 minutes ago, MizBrown said:

 

Difference between being discreet and out and out lying with liars who were conning the faithful.

 

Jefferson was a Deist.  Tom Paine was an atheist as was at least one of the generals in Vermont.

 

Jefferson wrote: “In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”

 

Then you have Samuel Johnson' crack about the loudest welps for liberty coming from the drivers of negros.

 

 

Oftentimes, if those seeking power want to be perceived as being pious and "righteous" by their followers, all they have to do is to quote (or hide behind) the Bible or some other holy book. It's an old, old story, the world over...

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19 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Oftentimes, if those seeking power want to be perceived as being pious and "righteous" by their followers, all they have to do is to quote (or hide behind) the Bible or some other holy book. It's an old, old story, the world over...

 

Late 18th Century US outside the South was  different.   New Jersey even let selected women and free blacks vote until 1805 (some serious property qualifications and probably a dead husband plus the property qualifications for the women).

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2 hours ago, SShep said:

 

At the very least, a full apology should be forthcoming. Really the whole matter should be investigated to find out who was/is responsible, why the police were initially determined to pursue the matter and assurances should be made that nothing of the sort will ever happen again.

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On 04/02/2021 at 11:03, Cal said:


I’d have thought that last part was stating the bleedin’ obvious - whether you are official press or not if you do any kind of news coverage or press it would be extremely unprofessional to impart your views either by action or by speech during the event. This is part of the IPSO guidelines as well, effectively to be free of bias while acting in a professional capacity. 

 

 

maybe different in the UK, but where i am in Canada we have a whole industry of "Journalist" who are actively part of the story angle greatly influenced by our southern neighbour.  

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2 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

Late 18th Century US outside the South was  different.   New Jersey even let selected women and free blacks vote until 1805 (some serious property qualifications and probably a dead husband plus the property qualifications for the women).

 

Have to admit that I haven't spent a lot of time in the South. I visited friends in Richmond VA back in the early 70's. It seemed like a different world even then.

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4 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Yes, that's true as well. I was fortunate in that my parents didn't lay any trips on me -- religious, political, nationalistic, etc. -- but rather let me make up my own mind about the world. I really thank them for that.


The same for me John.  I often say to my brother how grateful I am for that.  My parents were smart educated people, both traveled extensively and spoke four or more languages each.  They decided to not raise their four kids with any rules about religion or politics but both were topics of conversation.  My father was grateful for the opportunities he found in the U.S., as an immigrant from Egypt with no money, to speak of, but a good education in Cairo.  So he always felt a sense of debt to America for taking him in when life in Egypt was nearly unbearable then, under King Farouk.  Of the four kids, not one of us took a religion and politically, three of us became more of liberals and one went the conservative route.  I do respect the right of all people to observe their particular religion but never at the expense of others.  I feel very comfortable going into any house of warship that will allow me in with no conditions, other than respecting a dress code or observing a no photo rule.  I appreciate the arts, music and history (for better or worse) that is undeniable in shaping the world we are in now.

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1 hour ago, Michael Ventura said:


The same for me John.  I often say to my brother how grateful I am for that.  My parents were smart educated people, both traveled extensively and spoke four or more languages each.  They decided to not raise their four kids with any rules about religion or politics but both were topics of conversation.  My father was grateful for the opportunities he found in the U.S., as an immigrant from Egypt with no money, to speak of, but a good education in Cairo.  So he always felt a sense of debt to America for taking him in when life in Egypt was nearly unbearable then, under King Farouk.  Of the four kids, not one of us took a religion and politically, three of us became more of liberals and one went the conservative route.  I do respect the right of all people to observe their particular religion but never at the expense of others.  I feel very comfortable going into any house of warship that will allow me in with no conditions, other than respecting a dress code or observing a no photo rule.  I appreciate the arts, music and history (for better or worse) that is undeniable in shaping the world we are in now.

 

My father used to tell people he was a "free thinker," and my mother usually fell asleep in church. I went to Anglican Sunday school when I was a kid in Quebec. I actually started school at an Ursuline convent (the nuns weren't very nice) in Barbados, where there were few schooling options at the time. None of it sank in, though. Religion isn't the problem. It's how it gets misused and weaponized that's scary. I guess I'd be considered a liberal, but I'm not a fan of labels. Atheism seems like just another form of religion to me. Best to let the mystery be IMO...

Edited by John Mitchell
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2 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

maybe different in the UK, but where i am in Canada we have a whole industry of "Journalist" who are actively part of the story angle greatly influenced by our southern neighbour.  

 

 

One of the problems for many papers is source dependence -- which was the reason the Watergate story was broken by crime reporters and not the DC political reporters, and why the NY Times got snookered into supporting the invasion of Iraq for which it apologized later.

 

In most of the South, the press was not in the least bit free of advertiser and political interference.  Jesse Helms started as a local TV host who got a graduate student pulled from teaching after some girl complained to her parents that she had to read Andrew Marvell's "To His Coy Mistress." 

 

I tend to rely on the BBC for international news. 

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Let’s hope legal action is taken against the police for false arrest, property theft etc.  The actions of the police were utterly appalling. 

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I too hope that the NUJ and their lawyers pursue this. From what we are told it is the police and not the photographer that crossed a line, at the very least by seizing the phone and cards without apparently having the proper authority to do so. I'm not a news photographer but if as a result of this photojournalists, or even frankly humble 'citizen journalists' feel less inclined to cover protests or matters concerning social justice then it will be 'job done' for the authorities.

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Do you all think I can still use this old Italian press card in the EU? I'm sure if I smile and pretend to speak no known language, they won't arrest me. Right? 

 

italian-press-card-from-the-1960s-2E9N6K

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12 hours ago, losdemas said:

 

At the very least, a full apology should be forthcoming. Really the whole matter should be investigated to find out who was/is responsible, why the police were initially determined to pursue the matter and assurances should be made that nothing of the sort will ever happen again.

Exactly! Shocking to be arrested 6 hours later and have everything taken off you, without some kind of evidence, rather than what exactly?

Seems to me to be symptomatic of this Government consistent lies and covering up the truth 

Chris

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38 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Quite. Lamentable.

 

Considering other boobs she should be fired.

 

Allan

 

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41 minutes ago, Phil Crean said:

What a pathetic reply from Pritti Patel...

Phil


One might even call it pretty pathetic. Actually a typical politician’s answer. 

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