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5 minutes ago, IanDavidson said:

The NUJ has just sent an email to all its press card holders reminding us of the strict terms for holding and using a press card.  They also remind us that a press card can be revoked at any time.

 

Here is a paragraph from a long communication

“Remember only to use the press card on occasions when you are reporting an event. Do not use your press card when your involvement in an event is other than as a reporter and observational role – for example, you cannot use your card if you are organising an event orpresent as a protestor or activist”


 

The plot thickens.

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1 hour ago, IanDavidson said:

The NUJ has just sent an email to all its press card holders reminding us of the strict terms for holding and using a press card.  They also remind us that a press card can be revoked at any time.

 

Here is a paragraph from a long communication

“Remember only to use the press card on occasions when you are reporting an event. Do not use your press card when your involvement in an event is other than as a reporter and observational role – for example, you cannot use your card if you are organising an event orpresent as a protestor or activist”


 


I’d have thought that last part was stating the bleedin’ obvious - whether you are official press or not if you do any kind of news coverage or press it would be extremely unprofessional to impart your views either by action or by speech during the event. This is part of the IPSO guidelines as well, effectively to be free of bias while acting in a professional capacity. 

Edited by Cal
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35 minutes ago, Cal said:

I’d have thought that last part........

It could indicate that there is another side to the story. It's very easy for us to be on the photographer's side regardless, whereas maybe the police did see something of a line crossed.

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16 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

 

A free press is part of it, but La Prensa here is the voice of a family that's very annoyed that it isn't getting its own in as presidents these days.  They're rather freer than they admit. 

 

I think one thing that happens in Europe that hasn't traditionally happened in the US is that you do have papers with politics who do operate in a journalistic culture where other papers have other politics.   US journalism has areas where it's just not trustworthy -- Latin American coverage tends to be either missing, partisan, or simplistic. 

 

There's some historical evidence that at least part of the American colonies wanted to leave the UK because the UK was becoming hostile to slavery.  South Carolina grew its own tea so had no problem with the tea tax, but did have a problem with not being able to visit London with their slaves (Google Somerset v Stewart -- and the judge who make that decision raised his son's African Anglo daughter).

 

Nicaragua is 6 million or so people.  There are various flavors of official and oppositional news, both frequently full of lies, so everyone checks with people who were there so see what probably maybe really happened.   We're in a age where everyone has Photoshop.   Freedom of the press without ethics is problematic. 

 

If we have a significant portion of the US population believing that Trump is their salvation and that special courts have given Special Forces troops  warrants to arrest all the prominent liberal and take them to Guantanamo for tribunals and hanging, the problem is the US educational system, not freedom of the press.   The South ended up making talking about abolition of slavery a capital offense during the Confederacy and had strict control over the press compared to the North where the press was free to publish battle plans if they found out about them (Grant commented ruefully about this in his memoirs).

 

For the US, I'm less worried about Fox News than I am about our educational system - the lack of critical thinking skills evidenced by a large swath of our population is staggering. That a Q believer who espoused hanging the Speaker of the House while she was running for office is extremely disturbing, but without a free press we up north who haven't heard her speeches or followed her on social media wouldn't even know about it. Much of the press is biased these days which is why we all need to read a variety of newspapers (3 minute clips on the nightly news tells you next to nothing IMHO except perhaps what to believe without any deeper understanding). The key is that it's important to let voices be heard, though I wish there was the kind of ethics in journalism that I recall from the past, but I don't think anyone in authority (government or police) should decide whose voice to stifle

 

That's a really frightening development in the UK. In law school, we studied some old British caselaw, upon which our own system was based. I've always felt that the US and the UK had the strongest democracies and seeing them being undermined is terrifying. 

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2 hours ago, spacecadet said:

The plot thickens.

 

I don't think there's anything significant connecting this email and Andy's arrest. And I hope there's no insinuation that he might have been using his card inappropriately. Of course there are always two sides to every story but I know him and can assure everyone he is as bona fide as they come.

 

Richard.

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2 hours ago, spacecadet said:

The plot thickens.

 

 

It’s likely the NUJ statement related to recent events, but if so which one? Remember there was also another photographer who had been covering London HS2 protests for a week. The police/bailiffs refused to recognise her NUJ press card and issued her a COVID fine as they disputed she was working. Eventually more will be known, so we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. 
 

I’ve previously spent most of a day covering a fracking protest in Lancashire. I spoke to some of the protesters at their roadside hut/tea room, and while they were telling me how they were kettled during the night as transport entered the drilling site. I accepted a cup of tea, but I was never marked as being associated with the protestors, which I wasn’t . In the similar circumstances I would now go thirsty. Hopefully instances like this won’t be misinterpreted in the current climate. I also spoke to the police present asking when the transport might leave, as what goes in has to come out. Eventually they did and it got very lively after an arrest, with police about to use pepper spray. Mostly I kept to myself during lulls in the action. Was an interesting day. But will covering events like this again be safe, and I’m not a press card holder.

Edited by sb photos
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8 minutes ago, sb photos said:

 

 

It’s likely the NUJ statement related to recent events, but if so which one? Remember there was also another photographer who had been covering London HS2 protests for a week. The police/bailiffs refused to recognise her NUJ press card and issued her a COVID fine as they disputed she was working. Eventually more will be known, so we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. 
 

I’ve previously spent most of a day covering a fracking protest in Lancashire. I spoke to some of the protesters at their roadside hut/tea room, and while they were telling me how they were kettled during the night as transport entered the drilling site. I accepted a cup of tea, but I was never marked as being associated with the protestors, which I wasn’t . In the similar circumstances I would now go thirsty. Hopefully instances like this won’t be misinterpreted in the current climate. I also spoke to the police present asking when the transport might leave, as what goes in has to come out. Eventually they did and it got very lively after an arrest, with police about to use pepper spray. Mostly I kept to myself during lulls in the action. Was an interesting day. But will covering events like this again be safe, and I’m not a press card holder.

 

If anything is learned from this, I'd say that one should not associate with protestors (as SB has just said) as much as we might have. Who knows whether in future accepting a cuppa would be seen as fraternising??

 

Richard.

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3 hours ago, IanDavidson said:

The NUJ has just sent an email to all its press card holders reminding us of the strict terms for holding and using a press card.  They also remind us that a press card can be revoked at any time.

 

Here is a paragraph from a long communication

“Remember only to use the press card on occasions when you are reporting an event. Do not use your press card when your involvement in an event is other than as a reporter and observational role – for example, you cannot use your card if you are organising an event orpresent as a protestor or activist”


 

 

1 hour ago, Avpics said:

It could indicate that there is another side to the story. It's very easy for us to be on the photographer's side regardless, whereas maybe the police did see something of a line crossed.

 

45 minutes ago, Richard Baker said:

 

I don't think there's anything significant connecting this email and Andy's arrest. And I hope there's no insinuation that he might have been using his card inappropriately. Of course there are always two sides to every story but I know him and can assure everyone he is as bona fide as they come.

 

Richard.

 

All very interesting. Do the NUJ know something we don't? What we need is a journalist on the case...

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38 minutes ago, Marianne said:

I've always felt that the US and the UK had the strongest democracies and seeing them being undermined is terrifying. 

 

I grew up in the US South which wasn't a democracy.  South Carolina barred atheists from running for office, didn't allow women to serve on juries, and had one of the lowest possible ages for marriage without parental consent of any of the neighboring states.   Living here in Nicaragua, I didn't see anyone as afraid of the FSLN as blacks were of whites in 1950s South Carolina until 2018 (and even then, Nicaraguans did speak out and the internet connections were never blocked through out the civil unrest).  Nicaragua is a soft authoritarian regime, but living here made me realize South Carolina for blacks was worse, and it wasn't that good for women either.  

 

What undermining the US are the same forces that were in play in the 1850s.   I first found out about Q-Anon over a year ago.  I didn't see any sign that major media was aware of it until the Presidential debates.  And some of the features of that troll are similar to the Usenet trolls who were accusing sysadmins and network security people who opposed spammers of being pedophiles, also claims that law enforcement were arresting administrators who filtered spam out of email, and doxed people.  So far, no denial of service attacks, but the rest of it is so similar. 

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1 hour ago, Marianne said:

 

For the US, I'm less worried about Fox News than I am about our educational system - the lack of critical thinking skills evidenced by a large swath of our population is staggering. That a Q believer who espoused hanging the Speaker of the House while she was running for office is extremely disturbing, but without a free press we up north who haven't heard her speeches or followed her on social media wouldn't even know about it. Much of the press is biased these days which is why we all need to read a variety of newspapers (3 minute clips on the nightly news tells you next to nothing IMHO except perhaps what to believe without any deeper understanding). The key is that it's important to let voices be heard, though I wish there was the kind of ethics in journalism that I recall from the past, but I don't think anyone in authority (government or police) should decide whose voice to stifle

 

That's a really frightening development in the UK. In law school, we studied some old British caselaw, upon which our own system was based. I've always felt that the US and the UK had the strongest democracies and seeing them being undermined is terrifying. 

 

The undermining of democracy in the UK is nothing new. August 2019 - the current Prime Minister of the UK together with several current cabinet members attempted to prorogue parliament which in simple terms was a very basic attack on British democracy in order to get some very difficult legislation through. Fortunately the Supreme Court declared this to be an illegal act and parliament was recalled. However, since then I believe (not sure on this one) that the power of the Supreme Court has been reduced and a similar act by government may not have the same result in future. The Supreme Court judges were vilified by sections of the right wing media who also vilified MPs for daring to do their jobs and attempting to uphold the democratic process. And the UK does not have a written constitution.

 

Yet a few months later the people voted the same politicians back into power with a huge majority. Go figure as you guys say. 

 

 

Edited by MDM
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Nothing on his Twitter feed as yet but if I'm reading his statement on the NUJ website today correctly it seems that the charges have been withdrawn and his card etc. returned:

 

"Kent police must be investigated after seizing photographer’s phone and memory card, says the NUJ"

 

“Today I received a call from the arresting police officer on my case. She said that I had been refused charges as there was no evidence to charge me with criminal damage and that my bail conditions were cancelled. I attended the police station to retrieve my equipment and when asked for ID I again showed my NUJ press card."

 

https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/kent-police-must-be-investigated-after-seizing-photographers/

Edited by Harry Harrison
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25 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

😀

I'm not familiar with the term 'refused charges' but as far as I can see it means that the charges have been dropped, and his SD card(s) have been returned and bail conditions cancelled, so that seems like good news.

Edited by Harry Harrison
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1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

I'm not familiar with the term 'refused charges' but as far as I can see it means that the charges have been dropped, and his SD card(s) have been returned and bail conditions cancelled, so that seems like good news.

I assume it means that the CPS decided  not to allow him to be charged because of a lack of evidence. What led the police to decide to arrest we may never know.

I understand that the images had already been published, so the allegation of censorship may be hard to maintain. He was arrested after the fact, not to stop him working.

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22 hours ago, MizBrown said:

South Carolina barred atheists from running for office

Even in 2021, I don't think an avowed atheist would be voted into the US government. I wonder how many people in public office have had to hide their unbelief...

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51 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

I assume it means that the CPS decided  not to allow him to be charged because of a lack of evidence. What led the police to decide to arrest we may never know.

I understand that the images had already been published, so the allegation of censorship may be hard to maintain. He was arrested after the fact, not to stop him working.

Although bail conditions prevented him legally carrying out further work there which is arguably censorship. If nothing else, he should be pursuing whether it was an unlawful arrest.

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1 hour ago, John Morrison said:

Even in 2021, I don't think an avowed atheist would be voted into the US government. I wonder how many people in public office have had to hide their unbelief...

 

Our thoughts and prayers are with you ...... What a practically useless phrase which is often used by American politicians.  Fortunately Britain remains largely secular which scores very highly in my ranking of what makes up a good portion of the great in Great Britain so I don't generally have to bear it here. However, I did hear the home secretary utter it recently I'm sure. Please noooo. And whatever happens, if I should die of Covid or anything else (which I will do at some point for sure), please do not intercede with the almighty (if there is one) on my behalf.

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On 03/02/2021 at 16:55, MizBrown said:

 

 

A free press is part of it, but La Prensa here is the voice of a family that's very annoyed that it isn't getting its own in as presidents these days.  They're rather freer than they admit. 

 

I think one thing that happens in Europe that hasn't traditionally happened in the US is that you do have papers with politics who do operate in a journalistic culture where other papers have other politics.   US journalism has areas where it's just not trustworthy -- Latin American coverage tends to be either missing, partisan, or simplistic. 

 

There's some historical evidence that at least part of the American colonies wanted to leave the UK because the UK was becoming hostile to slavery.  South Carolina grew its own tea so had no problem with the tea tax, but did have a problem with not being able to visit London with their slaves (Google Somerset v Stewart -- and the judge who make that decision raised his son's African Anglo daughter).

 

Nicaragua is 6 million or so people.  There are various flavors of official and oppositional news, both frequently full of lies, so everyone checks with people who were there so see what probably maybe really happened.   We're in a age where everyone has Photoshop.   Freedom of the press without ethics is problematic. 

 

If we have a significant portion of the US population believing that Trump is their salvation and that special courts have given Special Forces troops  warrants to arrest all the prominent liberal and take them to Guantanamo for tribunals and hanging, the problem is the US educational system, not freedom of the press.   The South ended up making talking about abolition of slavery a capital offense during the Confederacy and had strict control over the press compared to the North where the press was free to publish battle plans if they found out about them (Grant commented ruefully about this in his memoirs).

 

I recently saw a revealing interview with a young woman who fell for the QAnon conspiracy theories. She said that she was brought up to "do what she was told," so when she heard all the BS, she just assumed that it was all true. Here's the thing, you can't condition people (politically, religiously, nationalistically, etc.) and then expect them to develop critical thinking skills.

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8 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

I recently saw a revealing interview with a young woman who fell for the QAnon conspiracy theories. She said that she was brought up to "do what she was told," so when she heard all the BS, she just assumed that it was all true. Here's the thing, you can't condition people (politically, religiously, nationalistically, etc.) and then expect them to develop critical thinking skills.

 

Or not. Being conditioned (indoctrinated) at a very early age can force one to have to think for oneself and to find alternative answers. I still remember when I was 7 or so asking my mother if Santa was real as there were one or two things that did not add up. That was disappointing but also satisfying and it prepared me for the great escapes of my teenage years. 

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Just now, MDM said:

 

Or not. Being conditioned (indoctrinated) at a very early age can force one to have to think for oneself and to find alternative answers. I still remember when I was 7 or so asking my mother if Santa was real as there were one or two things that did not add up. That was disappointing but also satisfying and it prepared me for the great escapes of my teenage years. 

 

Yes, that's true as well. I was fortunate in that my parents didn't lay any trips on me -- religious, political, nationalistic, etc. -- but rather let me make up my own mind about the world. I really thank them for that.

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1 minute ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Yes, that's true as well. I was fortunate in that my parents didn't lay any trips on me -- religious, political, nationalistic, etc. -- but rather let me make up my own mind about the world. I really thank them for that.

 

Good on them John.  That is how it should be. I value the ability and freedom to think independently very highly. I consider myself fortunate now but it was a battle. 

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