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'Amateur Photographer' article on UK Lockdown restrictions for amateurs & professionals


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7 minutes ago, NYCat said:

You guys keep responding to someone who seems to not have anything better to do. I know. I shall deserve any red arrows. But really. I'm tired of these endless "disputes"????

 

Paulette

 

 

No dispute. Nothing to worry about. 

 

Endless?

 

Ended.

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7 minutes ago, NYCat said:

You guys keep responding to someone who seems to not have anything better to do. I know. I shall deserve any red arrows. But really. I'm tired of these endless "disputes"????

 

Paulette

Me too. Lets try to stick to facts like the law of the land.

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Folks, just don't bother, I think we have a troll amongst us.  The profile pic of this troll really indicates what we're dealing with. 

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6 minutes ago, Colblimp said:

Folks, just don't bother, I think we have a troll amongst us.  The profile pic of this troll really indicates what we're dealing with. 

There is a ignore option on this forum. Use it,  i am

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17 hours ago, geogphotos said:

Randomly shooting stock photos is not essential even if you want to argue that it is your 'job'. 

A lot of people seem to misinterpret this. The law doesn't require the work to be essential, only the journey.

As an example I explained why I haven't travelled to take stock images, but the reason I haven't isn't because it would be unlawful- it wouldn't. I have travelled with my other hat on because you can't repair a 250kg film editing machine anywhere but in situ. Therefore, essential journey for work.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but if even the police can get it wrong so can forum members.

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10 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

A lot of people seem to misinterpret this. The law doesn't require the work to be essential, only the journey.

As an example I explained why I haven't travelled to take stock images, but the reason I haven't isn't because it would be unlawful- it wouldn't. I have travelled with my other hat on because you can't repair a 250kg film editing machine anywhere but in situ. Therefore, essential journey for work.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but if even the police can get it wrong so can forum members.

 

 

I wasn't suggesting that this was a matter of law just sensible guidance that most people seem willing to abide by for the common good. 

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5 hours ago, spacecadet said:

A lot of people seem to misinterpret this. The law doesn't require the work to be essential, only the journey.

As an example I explained why I haven't travelled to take stock images, but the reason I haven't isn't because it would be unlawful- it wouldn't. I have travelled with my other hat on because you can't repair a 250kg film editing machine anywhere but in situ. Therefore, essential journey for work.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but if even the police can get it wrong so can forum members.

A good post @spacecadet. Thank you for your contribution.

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I've followed this topic with interest.

In common with most internet forums, there seems to be an awful lot of one upmanship and bullcrop. However, there are some nuggets amongst the waffle.

What we probably want to know more than anything else is:-

How many professional photographers have been stopped / questioned by the Police.
How many professional photographers have been fined.
How many professional photographers were allowed to continue their trade.
How many professional photographers stopped / fined were carrying a "press pass" and what was the result of showing the press card.
How do you classify someone as a professional photographer?
Does the fact that one of my local Police social media accounts uses one of my landscape photographs prominently, and I can show reasonable proof that the photograph was legally licensed through a microstock agency, mean that I'm a professional photographer?

And advice sought on another related point. 
Your motor car insurance. Did you tell your insurance company that you are a part time, full time or occasional photographer? Even if you don't use your car to travel to photography locations, failure to disclose any part time profession to your motor insurer could invalidate your motor insurance?


 

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6 minutes ago, John David said:

an awful lot of one upmanship and bullcrop

 

6 minutes ago, John David said:

waffle.

 

This thread, and one poster in particular, is rather an exception. This is one of the most useful proressional forums you will find if you care to look.

Figures of the sort you seek are not going to become available unless one of us is stopped! In any case they would prove very little, because we do not know how many photographers are venturing out, so they wouldn't even give you an idea of the risk.

The thread was (it's a week old) about various approaches to the issue of what is currently permitted. For example, because ID and residence documents are not required in the UK, the police approach to where you are allowed to be and what you are doing must perforce be light-touch. We must all take a view.

Our car insurance is for SDP so the question does not arise. As a named driver my occupation is down as retired.

 

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24 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

 

 

This thread, and one poster in particular, is rather an exception. This is one of the most useful proressional forums you will find if you care to look.

Figures of the sort you seek are not going to become available unless one of us is stopped! In any case they would prove very little, because we do not know how many photographers are venturing out, so they wouldn't even give you an idea of the risk.

The thread was (it's a week old) about various approaches to the issue of what is currently permitted. For example, because ID and residence documents are not required in the UK, the police approach to where you are allowed to be and what you are doing must perforce be light-touch. We must all take a view.

Our car insurance is for SDP so the question does not arise. As a named driver my occupation is down as retired.

 

I cared to look, and that is why I am here.
Fair answer, but not the answer we want.
So, if my local Police force have correctly and legally licenced from me, in exchange for money, one of my photographs, I can claim to be a professional photographer?

So, when stopped entering into Dyfed, how would you explain to the police man that you are there?

 

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50 minutes ago, John David said:

How many professional photographers have been stopped / questioned by the Police.
How many professional photographers have been fined.
How many professional photographers were allowed to continue their trade.
How many professional photographers stopped / fined were carrying a "press pass" and what was the result of showing the press card.

Space cadet is right.  I doubt if any one has these statistics, you could try the NUJ. While covering an anti lockdown demo is Parliament Square everyone in the area was stopped and questioned.  If you had a Press card you could stay, otherwise you had to move on.  If you stayed after being told to move on you were either fined or arrested.  I was asked for my press card eight or nine times and was threatened with arrest once.  However, that is not normal.  On a “typical” lockdown day in London I will be asked for my card once.  In Essex, where I live, I normally preempt any request by producing my card before I am asked.  However, it is rare to be approached by the Essex police while working.  None of the above should be seen as a statement of law, just what I have experienced and I make no judgement on the action or inaction of the police. 
 

Are you asking about the possibility of being stopped and what action is taken? That is dependent on the situation, local practice and the discretion of individual officers, in my view and experience.

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10 minutes ago, John David said:

I cared to look, and that is why I am here.
Fair answer, but not the answer we want.
So, if my local Police force have correctly and legally licenced from me, in exchange for money, one of my photographs, I can claim to be a professional photographer?

So, when stopped entering into Dyfed, how would you explain to the police man that you are there?

 

 

 

I'm not following your reasoning here. Just because the police have bought one of your images surely doesn't mean that you won't be challenged and possibly fined. And I can't see that on its own makes you a professional photographer. 

 

Whether you want to get involved in a discussion with a police officer when entering Dyfed is your call. If you are a professional photo-journalist and you are doing your job then you have every right to be out covering news stories. If that is not the case not sure what you are hoping to achieve.

Edited by geogphotos
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On 23/01/2021 at 15:45, IanDavidson said:

Space cadet is right.  I doubt if any one has these statistics, you could try the NUJ. While covering an anti lockdown demo is Parliament Square everyone in the area was stopped and questioned.  If you had a Press card you could stay, otherwise you had to move on.  If you stayed after being told to move on you were either fined or arrested.  I was asked for my press card eight or nine times and was threatened with arrest once.  However, that is not normal.  On a “typical” lockdown day in London I will be asked for my card once.  In Essex, where I live, I normally preempt any request by producing my card before I am asked.  However, it is rare to be approached by the Essex police while working.  None of the above should be seen as a statement of law, just what I have experienced and I make no judgement on the action or inaction of the police. 
 

Are you asking about the possibility of being stopped and what action is taken? That is dependent on the situation, local practice and the discretion of individual officers, in my view and experience.

 

Thankyou for the great answer. It's good to receive some first hand experience from yourself. Your comments do suggest the importance of carrying a Press Card.

Yes, I was basically asking about the likelihood of being stopped and the consequences. I certainly don't earn enough income from my photography to qualify for a Press Card, but of the sales I do have, my editorial photographs are definitely the best sellers. I do know that several have appeared in "coffee table" magazines and I do have some timely newsworthy photographs which have appeared on websites and in print. But, does that make me a professional? 

 

I live in Wales, where things are a bit different, but similar to England. For instance, here in Wales, daily exercise must begin and end at home. Any travel for exercise is not allowed. Unless travel to the nearest accessible location is required for strictly medical reasons. However, photography IS allowed whilst exercising, so long as the photography is achieved whilst moving (this has been stated semi-officially) (ie stopping to set up a tripod and compose a series of shots is not allowed whilst exercising, but taking a snapshot whilst moving along is fine). It is clearly stated that everyone in Wales should work from home, unless their work can not be carried out at home. It is also clear that in Wales, travel for the purpose of work which can not be carried out from home is allowed.

Now my own problem is this.... My day job is fading away. If we are truly living in the New Normal with children being home schooled, usage of public transport being discouraged, travelling being frowned upon, then my days as a school bus driver are numbered. (experience is that over the last 12 months, I've only driven school buses for 16 weeks. The rest of the time, I've been "furloughed")

I've got to have a back up plan. My back up plan is photography. I know I have much to learn, I know my composition skills are lacking but I also know that on the one day I went out to take compositionally good photographs - they sold.  Right now, I just need to sell more / raise the bar / learn - and these are all things I'm more than willing to do. 

Within walking distance of my home, I have some, but not very many, news worthy photography possibilities. However, within 45 minutes travel of my home, I have almost an unlimited amount of newsworthy photography possibilities. High streets, retail parks, city centres, fish docks, ferry docks, mountains, villages, towns, lakes, etc etc.

Whether I am legally allowed to access these places revolves around one simple fact. Am I a professional photographer or not?

I think I am a professional photographer. Mostly because I take photographs and can prove that I earn money from selling them through stock agencies. I can even demonstrate one particular photograph which one of my local Police social media paid to licence legally to use on their account.
However, the amount of money I earn from my photography in relation to my other income from other jobs is not enough for me to apply for a valid Press Card.

 

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10 hours ago, John David said:

I've got to have a back up plan. My back up plan is photography. I know I have much to learn, I know my composition skills are lacking but I also know that on the one day I went out to take compositionally good photographs - they sold.  Right now, I just need to sell more / raise the bar / learn - and these are all things I'm more than willing to do. 

Can I suggest you look at the work of the late Keith Morris on Alamy.  He was a Welshman who took the vast majority of his photos within a couple of miles of his home.  He was also one of the most successful photographers on Alamy, ever.  Laying aside the issues around his death, many of us look to Keith for inspiration and what is possible.  One of his driving forces was close analysis of what is being used in the media and how to supply that demand.  He took pictures he knew that would sell rather than being “nice” - although most of his photos went far beyond nice.   If I become one tenth of the photographer that Keith was, I would die a happy person. 

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10 hours ago, John David said:

Am I a professional photographer or not?

Clearly, you are now, if you're furloughed, and more power to you. It's clear that doing other work during furlough is positively encouraged, and if and when we come out the other end of this rabbit hole you are going to need another string to your bow. Tell that to the securely-employed constable who tells you you're not working.

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10 hours ago, John David said:

I've got to have a back up plan. My back up plan is photography.

Further to Ian's post, an Alamy piece on the late Keith Morris with a link to his pictures on Alamy, written well before his death in 2019:

 

https://www.alamy.com/blog/selling-stock-photos

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Thankyou, Ian, Space and Harry, for the valued replies.
I know this thread / topic is quite old now, so I won't labour things by replying individually with separate quotes.

 

Ian, again, thankyou for the valued reply. I have heard of Keith Morris, and I have previously taken on board his theory about staying local. I used to travel Europe. I've traversed the Milau viaduct, I've been to the Ronchamps Chapel, the Cite de l'Automobile in Mulhouse, I've spent dozens of weekends in Amsterdam, I grew to know my way around Paris better than my own home town. Yet despite all this, my very first sale on Alamy (and it sold twice) was for a page a day calendar and a photograph of a church / chapel within 1 mile of my home. Persoanlly, I didn't like the photograph which sold, I do feel that it is over processed.
There must be a massive amount of experience to be gained from looking back to the work of Keith.

 

Harry, as above and yes I'm going to check back into those words several times over the coming weeks.

 

Space, those are confidence building words! 

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