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Posted (edited)

For a test I just tried comparing the LR culling with BreezeBrowser. I had a folder of 86 RAW images, about 2GB in total. I imported into LR with my default import preset with generate 100% previews set to ON. Import was fast (seconds), but it took a further 10 minutes to import and generate the previews. (Is my computer way too slow?) With BreezeBrowser review of the jpgs there is no delay. I know I'm not comparing Apples with Apples because LR is processing RAWs whereas BreezeBrowser is using the jpg "sidecar" files. So this is NOT a criticism of LR, just a comparison of two workflows on my hardware.

 

OK I thought, perhaps I can start culling before all the 100% previews have all been built, so I tried again. But I found that the 100% previews didn't seem to be created in the same sequence as the images in the folder (is that normal?), so it was better to wait for it to finish before starting to review. I'd be half finished in my culling in BreezeBrowser before LR has even finished the import, and BreezeBrowser allows 100% view side be side comparison or 2, 3 or 4 images at a time with synchronised pan and zoom. With LR import being relatively slow (on my computer) I find it useful to do most of the culling before importing. Why waste time generating 100% LR previews when many are going to be discarded anyway?

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman

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Harry, I shoot with Fuji, and my sales are decent for plants, trees and such. Done in LR. When I got my first Fuji, the XT-1, I definitely saw the worm effect in some, but not all. I’m not seeing it now. I also moved up to the XT-2 when it was introduced. Not sure if the move from 16mp to 24mp played into that.

Betty

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29 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Harry, I shoot with Fuji, and my sales are decent for plants, trees and such.

Thanks Betty, that's good to know. I mean to do some detailed comparisons with these jpegs to see if it's noticeable and it is the same sensor as your XT-1 of course. I thought the X-Pro1 would be a rather frustrating stepping stone to an X-Pro2 but I'm actually really liking it. Foliage seems to figure rather a lot in my the pictures during lock-down!

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40 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

I had a folder of 86 RAW images, about 2GB in total. I imported into LR with my default import preset with generate 100% previews set to ON. Import was fast (seconds), but it took a further 10 minutes to import and generate the previews.

That sounds about right for me, I set it going and go off and do something else. I haven't tried it but presumably generating 'standard' sized previews will be quicker and enough for culling and then just generate 1:1 previews for what's left. I will try it next time in fact.

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48 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

presumably generating 'standard' sized previews will be quicker

It's 10 times faster on my machine. I'm going over to it straight away.

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1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

For a test I just tried comparing the LR culling with BreezeBrowser. I had a folder of 86 RAW images, about 2GB in total. I imported into LR with my default import preset with generate 100% previews set to ON. Import was fast (seconds), but it took a further 10 minutes to import and generate the previews. (Is my computer way too slow?) With BreezeBrowser review of the jpgs there is no delay. I know I'm not comparing Apples with Apples because LR is processing RAWs whereas BreezeBrowser is using the jpg "sidecar" files. So this is NOT a criticism of LR, just a comparison of two workflows on my hardware.

 

 

Try the 'Embedded & Sidecar' option. With this LR just pulls the full size preview your camera embedded in the RAW file and is much faster. It won’t match what you eventually see in the develop module, but useful for checking critical focus at 100% etc. during initial culling.

Craig

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13 minutes ago, Craig Joiner said:

 

Try the 'Embedded & Sidecar' option. With this LR just pulls the full size preview your camera embedded in the RAW file and is much faster. It won’t match what you eventually see in the develop module, but useful for checking critical focus at 100% etc. during initial culling.

Craig

I've just tried that, but when I go to 100% I still have to wait for the preview to render and it takes the usual amount of time.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

I've just tried that, but when I go to 100% I still have to wait for the preview to render and it takes the usual amount of time.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but unless I missed something, that is a fairly new addition and is Lightroom CC only. I believe you are still on 5.7 or thereabouts.

 

40 minutes ago, Craig Joiner said:

 

Try the 'Embedded & Sidecar' option. With this LR just pulls the full size preview your camera embedded in the RAW file and is much faster. It won’t match what you eventually see in the develop module, but useful for checking critical focus at 100% etc. during initial culling.

Craig

 

That is what I use since it was introduced. I no longer generate full size previews but I tick the generate standard previews during idle time box. For images that I am interested in developing, I just go into the Develop module and see them at 1:1 then. I am more of a skimmer than a culler - I skim off the stuff that I want and get rid of the rest later when I am sure it is safe.

Edited by MDM
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

I'm definately not afraid of trying new things and I did try Lightroom albeit many years ago.

 

 A friend of mine sent me some tutorials on dvd's/cd's whatever they were,  this was back in the day before so many tutorials on the web.  So.....I put the disks in my laptop and went through each step on my desktop, pausing it as and when I needed to.

 

 At the end of a very long day I just still didn't get it and ended up with a migraine☺️  However, I guess much has changed since then and maybe now it's easier.  For now I'm more than happy with my workflow using Bridge and PS.  I've never not been able to find a file quickly for past clients however many years old they are.  I also do backups on 2 external hard drives.  

 

Someone mentioned Breezebrowser, wow I remember using that when I had Windows back in the day.    Also there was another programme called Rawshooter (could be showing my age here!) that was very good but it ceased to exist after a while.  

 

So much useful information on this forum and again thanks for straightening me out with the straighten tool and a few others.😉

 

MDM I hope your recovery goes from strength to strength and Edo I hope the ginger is helping your hay fever.  

 

Carol

 

 

 

 

Thanks Carol. I only went into such detail about the benefits of a Lightroom versus Bridge/ACR workflow because Gen asked. Not intending to push it on anyone. Each to her/his own for sure.

 

 

Edited by MDM

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Craig Joiner said:

 

Try the 'Embedded & Sidecar' option. With this LR just pulls the full size preview your camera embedded in the RAW file and is much faster. It won’t match what you eventually see in the develop module, but useful for checking critical focus at 100% etc. during initial culling.

Craig

 

Thanks!! - That's loads faster (56 files in a few seconds) and seems to be a great way of speeding up the culling process. I have one quirk though... Any portrait format images haven't been rotated. Is it just me? It's happening whenever LR uses a portrait format sidecar jpg for the preview. When it uses the embedded jpg from the RAW it's fine. It's happening on Lumix G5 and Sony RX100 files. Bug in LR?

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman

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6 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Thanks!! - That's loads faster (56 files in a few seconds) and seems to be a great way of speeding up the culling process. I have one quirk though... Any portrait format images haven't been rotated. Is it just me? I think LR is probably choosing the jpg "sidecar" (I need to check this) and not the embedded jpg in the raw, but for some reason it's not doing the auto-rotate.

 

Mark

 

I've not seen this. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

I've not seen this. 

 

I'll do some more tests to try and understand what's happening. I'll try importing direct from the cameras' (Lumix G5 and RX100) SD cards (instead of importing files I already have on disk, just to be sure)

 

Mmm.. need to investigate further. If I import directly into LR from the SD card, then the "sidecar" previews are fine. But, if I import from SD card to hard-disk first using DownloaderPro (which I usually use) the problem occurs with the LR previews. Maybe Downloader Pro is changing the rotate flag, or maybe LR behaves differently when importing from hard-disk?

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I'll do some more tests to try and understand what's happening. I'll try importing direct from the cameras' (Lumix G5 and RX100) SD cards (instead of importing files I already have on disk, just to be sure)

 

Mmm.. need to investigate further. If I import directly into LR from the SD card, then the "sidecar" previews are fine. But, if I import from SD card to hard-disk first using DownloaderPro (which I usually use) the problem occurs with the LR previews. Maybe Downloader Pro is changing the rotate flag, or maybe LR behaves differently when importing from hard-disk?

 

Mark


Must be something with DownloaderPro. I always use a card reader to copy files to the hard drive and import from there. No problems. 
 

If DownloaderPro is a Windows app which I assume it is, then it is not entirely surprising that something might get misinterpreted. 

Edited by MDM

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1 hour ago, MDM said:

If DownloaderPro is a Windows app which I assume it is, then it is not entirely surprising that something might get misinterpreted. 

How so?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MDM said:


Must be something with DownloaderPro. I always use a card reader to copy files to the hard drive and import from there. No problems. 
 

If DownloaderPro is a Windows app which I assume it is, then it is not entirely surprising that something might get misinterpreted. 

 

Found it. Many years ago I must have set Downloader Pro to carry out lossless auto-rotation of jpgs during import. This leads to an inconsistency when LR imports the RAW and builds a Preview from the (rotated) sidecar jpg. The RAW file says rotation is needed, but the sidecar jpg has already been rotated. Based on the RAW file information, LR rotates the preview it generates from the already rotated sidecar jpg. It's not a bug in LR, it's just not been programmed to handle an inconsistency which wouldn't normally exist. I've turned off Auto-rotate in Downloader Pro and everything is now fine.

 

2 hours ago, MDM said:

If DownloaderPro is a Windows app which I assume it is, then it is not entirely surprising that something might get misinterpreted. 

 

DownloaderPro is a Windows app, but wasn't written or tested by Microsoft... Although they may have a hand in why I originally set jpgs to be rotated?? Maybe, back in the days of Windows XP, Windows preview ignored the rotate flag in jpg files?

 

Mark

 

Edited by M.Chapman

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, spacecadet said:

It's 10 times faster on my machine. I'm going over to it straight away.

 

Using embedded or sidecar is faster still on my machine. But I do shoot RAW + JPG (=sidecar).

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman

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13 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Using embedded or sidecar is faster still on my machine. But I do shoot RAW + JPG (=sidecar).

 

Mark


Careful. You are in danger of seeing the light and being converted. 😎

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3 minutes ago, MDM said:


Careful. You are in danger of seeing the light and being converted. 😎

 

🤣🤣 If only fixing the subscription only model was as easy.

But seriously, it has moved me another step towards LR. But first pass culling is still faster in BreezeBrowser so that will stay, for now.

A faster computer might move me another step as LR adjustments and panning aren't as smooth as in PS on my machine. Not sure why.

 

Mark

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Just now, M.Chapman said:

 

🤣🤣 If only fixing the subscription only model was as easy.

But seriously, it has moved me another step towards LR. But first pass culling is still faster in BreezeBrowser so that will stay, for now.

A faster computer might move me another step as LR adjustments and panning aren't as smooth as in PS on my machine. Not sure why.

 

Mark


Graphics card? 

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4 minutes ago, MDM said:


Graphics card? 

 

Currently MacBook Pro 2012 16GB RAM + 1TB SSD + HP23xi display.... So no possibility of internal graphics card upgrade and I suspect if I tried external graphics card the USB3 ports might be a major limitation..  Seriously considering a 27" iMac...

 

Mark

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50 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Using embedded or sidecar is faster still on my machine. But I do shoot RAW + JPG (=sidecar).

 

Mark

You can ignore me. I'm not on CC.

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On 25/06/2020 at 17:28, Kathy deWitt said:

It will Edo, it will; believe; even with the long grass around here I have been clear the whole day.  Good luck.

 

 

I've been trying raw ginger in several ways this past week—eating it raw, shaving onto food, and making hot tea with a large piece. None of it worked. 

 

Thanks anyway, Edo

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23 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

 

I've been trying raw ginger in several ways this past week—eating it raw, shaving onto food, and making hot tea with a large piece. None of it worked. 

 

Thanks anyway, Edo

Oh dear Edo, that's a pity. Maybe you have to do it for longer?

Good Luck

Kathy

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I'd stick to the claret. Ginger to be taken separately.

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On 25/06/2020 at 11:54, M.Chapman said:

 

I admire your persistence 😀 I'm sure if I was starting again I would probably do it all differently, and LR is currently the best overall combined image editing and DAM package out there (if one is happy to pay the Adobe subscription and largely adhere to their editing and file management "protocols"). But I'm also sure you recognise that "there are far easier ways of working" is an opinion, and doesn't necessarily apply to those who don't have the same level of knowledge and confidence in LR as you have, and who like to be able to operate on their files using a wider variety of packages (some of which do a better job at specific tasks than LR). Is my approach easier than LR? Maybe not, but it sure is more flexible (IMHO), and has stood the test of time for me. So yes, I'm happy with my way.

 

Mark

Mark, I use Lightroom, but not the cataloging. I simply use the import and development, then take the image to PS for a few other refinements. I prefer cropping and spotting in PS simply because I’m used to it. But I like having layers if needed. For instance, I can create a light layer, lighten the whole image then brush the sky back to a deeper blue If needed for overall aesthetics. This helps for the times something was unavoidably backlit. 
I can only spend X amount of time sitting at a computer before my back gives out. Like you, if what I’m doing works for me and I’m satisfied with it, I’m good.

And yes, I like learning new things but want them to be intuitive, not complicated. And it needs to be something I’m really excited about, like learning how to use textures for art applications, or studying videos for watercolor techniques. Cataloging leaves me cold, but that’s just me. We have to accept that everyone in this world has differing motivations, and that’s good. We aren’t clones of each other.

Betty

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