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14 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Not at all. Those bird images are amazing, really amazing. And you have lots of other excellent stuff. I don't throw out empty compliments so you can take that as real. 😀

 

+1 😃

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11 hours ago, gvallee said:

One item hit a chord, which is the culling of images or selecting keepers. I do lots of bird photography, shooting in burst mode which produces many hundred pix rapidly. The culling takes ages. In fact, I would say, this is the area where I spend most time, not the editing or tagging. And yes, Bridge is slow to generate previews. So it's one thing.

You may find that photo mechanic is the solution.  Although designed for news and sports photographers, for you the opening, ranking and culling is Super fast.  ,  You can download a trial version.  It is not totally intuitive but it does not take long to learn and integrates fine with editing tools.  It increased my workflow bu over 50%. 

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11 hours ago, gvallee said:

Now I have no choice but go and look at Lightroom to play with things you mentioned!

I don't suppose you get a lot of printing done out there in the Outback but the Print module in Lightroom is excellent also, easy to setup an infinite number of layouts for single images or contact sheets for multiple images etc. along  with associated printer and paper settings so you can just select your saved setup and choose whichever image(s) to print.

 

Not so keen on either the Book or Web modules, a little primitive and gimmicky imho.

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3 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Just wondering what you do use as a DAM (image database)? How do you locate your older images in other words? 

 

I use filenames of the form YYYY-MM-DD plus short caption. Images are stored in folders by Year taken, with Subfolders for month taken.

I do some limited local keywording of images that have sold, and where, and of shots of family members.

Search in MacOS and Smart folders does the rest allowing me to quickly make collections of images that have sold or of family etc.

It works for my entire image collection that goes back to 1980.

 

If I was starting all over again, I'd almost probably do it differently and would probably use a DAM and would definitely make more use of tags and keywords. But... the simple system I use has survived numerous incarnations of Windows, Linux and a swap to MacOS. Images can be moved between devices easily and accessed in a consistent way on my backup server too.

 

I know Adobe have said the LR catalog will still work if the subscription stops being paid. But what happens to all the develop settings stored in there? The develop module is presumably crippled? Can the develop settings still be exported to xmp files? I'm just wary about making LR the heart of my workflow and image library when I have to keep paying a monthly fee to be able to continue using it. As I've said before, if Adobe allowed me to keep using the latest version I have (only after paying at least 2 year's subscriptions for example) it would be different.

 

3 hours ago, MDM said:

Adjustment layers are not complex - they are simply non-destructive editing layers that sit over the pixel layer(s) of an image.

 

I didn't mean to suggest PS adjustment layers are overly complex. What I meant is using them is not quite as easy as LR which builds in the ability to turn adjustments on and off or refine them automatically (no need to create layers).

 

I run BreezeBrowser on my Mac using Parallels VM (it also runs in Crossover but not as well). It's not an ideal solution, but BreezeBrowser is still the fastest and best image review and culling software I've found to date. I'm still looking for a native Mac alternative. LR (*on my computer) is just too slow. (*As you know I'm considering an upgrade on that shortly, which could make me change my mind).

 

Mark

 

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3 hours ago, Kathy deWitt said:

Ah, Edo, try chewing on raw ginger.  I have had itchy hay fever eyes in the last week and as soon as I eat some ginger the symptoms go within a few minutes. 

Kathy

 

I bought some raw ginger, Kathy. I'm giving it a try.

 

I've had this condition (along with cough-variant asthma) for over 30 years now. I've talked with doctors, a specialist, and tried various antihistamines and inhalers. Nothing helped. I don't expect ginger will help either, but it's worth a try.

 

Thanks, Kathy.

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4 hours ago, Stokie said:

 

I regularly 'synchronise' the folders so they are up to date. You probably know this, but just right click on a folder and 'synchronise' is one of the options.

 

John.

 

It doesn't seem to work if an image file is renamed or just moved between two sub-folders (that both exist in LR catalog) using an external application. It simply offers to delete the original entry for the image (presumably loosing any adjustments) and imports what it sees as a new image. Or have I missed something?

 

Mark

 

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2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I use filenames of the form YYYY-MM-DD plus short caption. Images are stored in folders by Year taken, with Subfolders for month taken.

I do some limited local keywording of images that have sold, and where, and of shots of family members.

Search in MacOS and Smart folders does the rest allowing me to quickly make collections of images that have sold or of family etc.

It works for my entire image collection that goes back to 1980.

 

If I was starting all over again, I'd almost probably do it differently and would probably use a DAM and would definitely make more use of tags and keywords. But... the simple system I use has survived numerous incarnations of Windows, Linux and a swap to MacOS. Images can be moved between devices easily and accessed in a consistent way on my backup server too.

 

I know Adobe have said the LR catalog will still work if the subscription stops being paid. But what happens to all the develop settings stored in there? The develop module is presumably crippled? Can the develop settings still be exported to xmp files? I'm just wary about making LR the heart of my workflow and image library when I have to keep paying a monthly fee to be able to continue using it. As I've said before, if Adobe allowed me to keep using the latest version I have (only after paying at least 2 year's subscriptions for example) it would be different.

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

I think that is an incredibly convoluted and complex way of working. Calling it simple is well not sure what to say to that 😕

 

It works obviously for you but it misses out on so many features of working with a Lightroom catalog or even with Bridge. You know there is nothing to stop you trying a Lightroom catalog - it does nothing to the images and they won't even know Lightroom is looking at them. It is not OS specific either although I have never tried to transfer a Lightroom catalog to Windows from Mac, as I started using Lightroom well after I stopped using Windows. 

 

I can't say from experience what happens if you stop subscribing but I always write everything out to xmp anyway as this safeguards against corruption of the catalog (although that has never happened) so I don't rely on Lightroom. However, I have no intention of stopping subscribing in any case. I have been paying for Photoshop since 1997 over numerous upgrades and life without it is almost unimaginable. If it came to a choice between Lightroom and Photoshop, then it would be the Photoshop for me. The £10 a month for this lot is the best deal ever.

 

I don't know of any programs that will track a file if it is renamed by another application so I would not judge on that criterion. If you move files then the best way is to relink them rather than synchronise. This is trivial. But do make sure you write out to xmp files which hold all the information about the raw development and other metadata.

 

Ultimately it is each to his or her own and if you are happy with the way you work then by all means keep doing it. But there are far easier ways of working. 

 

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2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

I don't suppose you get a lot of printing done out there in the Outback but the Print module in Lightroom is excellent also, easy to setup an infinite number of layouts for single images or contact sheets for multiple images etc. along  with associated printer and paper settings so you can just select your saved setup and choose whichever image(s) to print.

 

Not so keen on either the Book or Web modules, a little primitive and gimmicky imho.

 

I didn't mention the Print module but I agree - it is excellent. I never print from Photoshop any more. And the soft proofing in the Develop module works a treat as well. Even if you don't print yourself but send images to a professional lab that provides printer profiles, the soft proofing is invaluable and a lot better than Photoshop.

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55 minutes ago, MDM said:

I don't know of any programs that will track a file if it is renamed by another application so I would not judge on that criterion.

 

My disk synchronisation program does this and there are others that monitor folders for any changes - it's not rocket science. But that's not really the point. Maybe I should call my system "rudimentary", rather than simple and it's certainly not advanced. But it's closely aligned to how most other documents are managed on a computer (including yours I suspect) by using intelligent filenames and then use system search for when you need something. Like I said, if I was starting again I would probably do it differently, but my system is independent of the OS or subscription to Adobe and I have about 26,000 images stored in it, so quite an inertia to change I'm afraid. 

 

55 minutes ago, MDM said:

This is trivial.

 

Agreed, if it's only a few files. But not when LR looses track of 100s of files. Then it becomes tedious.

 

Mark

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2 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

My disk synchronisation program does this and there are others that monitor folders for any changes - it's not rocket science. But that's not really the point. Maybe I should call my system "rudimentary", rather than simple and it's certainly not advanced. But it's closely aligned to how most other documents are managed on a computer (including yours I suspect) by using intelligent filenames and then search for when you need something. Like I said, if I was starting again I would probably do it differently, but my system is independent of the OS or subscription to Adobe and I have about 26,000 images stored in it, so quite an inertia to change I'm afraid. 

 

 

Agreed, if it's only a few files. But not when LR looses track of 100s of files. Then it becomes tedious.

 

Mark

 

I’m not talking simple file management. I’m talking about the ability to find and work on an image file or group of image files within seconds with full size previews available without having to re-import or open them in a new app. Lightroom is made for the job and does it really well. If you are unable to relink files that have not been renamed outside of Lightroom, then you are missing something. I relink the folders rather than the files and it recognises the contained files. I can move a catalog plus images from my desktop to my laptop and back again with no problems. I do always write to xmp as I said above and the xmp files move with the image files. 

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I can't say that I ever need to go back and find a RAW file - or hardly ever. I don't keep the sidecar files either.

 

My RAWS are in folders by month on 2 external HDs and on Photoshelter (also on one other Cloud storage system). 

 

All my JPEGS are in multiple galleries on Photoshelter and downloaded with metadata onto my computer HD. 

 

There are plenty of ways of getting a workflow that one is happy with. And personally I'd rather be getting on with it rather than learning about new software. 

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There have been numerous Improvements in the ACR raw converter over the years so it can be worth redoing sometimes. For example, highlight recovery improved massively in more recent versions. Shadow recovery and noise control in particular have also improved a lot. I have been reworking some raw images from 2008-2011 with significant improvements but then I have had time on my hands recently. 
 

In relation to learning new software, the capital labour expended can be worth it in the longer term if it leads to a more expedient workflow. 

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4 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

 

I bought some raw ginger, Kathy. I'm giving it a try.

 

I've had this condition (along with cough-variant asthma) for over 30 years now. I've talked with doctors, a specialist, and tried various antihistamines and inhalers. Nothing helped. I don't expect ginger will help either, but it's worth a try.

 

Thanks, Kathy.

It will Edo, it will; believe; even with the long grass around here I have been clear the whole day.  Good luck.

 

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2 hours ago, MDM said:

Ultimately it is each to his or her own and if you are happy with the way you work then by all means keep doing it. But there are far easier ways of working. 

 

I admire your persistence 😀 I'm sure if I was starting again I would probably do it all differently, and LR is currently the best overall combined image editing and DAM package out there (if one is happy to pay the Adobe subscription and largely adhere to their editing and file management "protocols"). But I'm also sure you recognise that "there are far easier ways of working" is an opinion, and doesn't necessarily apply to those who don't have the same level of knowledge and confidence in LR as you have, and who like to be able to operate on their files using a wider variety of packages (some of which do a better job at specific tasks than LR). Is my approach easier than LR? Maybe not, but it sure is more flexible (IMHO), and has stood the test of time for me. So yes, I'm happy with my way.

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
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9 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I admire your persistence 😀 I'm sure if I was starting again I would probably do it all differently, and LR is currently the best overall package out there (if one is happy to pay the Adobe subscription and largely adhere to their editing and file management "protocols"). But I'm also sure you recognise that "there are far easier ways of working" is an opinion, and doesn't necessarily apply to those who don't have the same level of knowledge and confidence in LR as you have, and who like to be able to operate on their files using a wider variety of packages (some of which do a better job at specific tasks than LR). Is my approach easier than LR? Maybe not, but it sure is more flexible (IMHO), and has stood the test of time for me. So yes, I'm happy with my way.

 

Mark

😀 Partly trying to correct some misconceptions and struggling to sit up at my computer in this heat, so passing the time lying on the couch with my iPad.  Again I could take issue with the idea that your workflow is more flexible. Using Lightroom does not preclude using the Mac Finder or indeed something like Photo Mechanic if one was in a hurry to cull.
 

My main point is that using a workflow that would not enable me to see full size previews rapidly and allow immediate editing as well as do searches within an imaging application would be less efficient for my needs than Lightroom which does all of that very well. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, MDM said:

My main point is that using a workflow that would not enable me to see full size previews rapidly and allow immediate editing

 

I must admit that I "cheat" slightly on that one. My camera is set to shoot RAW + full size JPG. BreezeBrowser treats them as a linked pair and displays the jpg, but will tag, rate or delete them as a pair. This works fine for me as most my culling is based on focus and composition or gross exposure errors for which the jpg is fine. I then either edit the remaining raws individually in PS, or import the batch into LR if I need to batch process for any reason. Your method has the benefit of allowing culling on images that have some adjustments applied. But on my current computer it's just too slow to import and generate previews for side by side comparison in LR. On BreezeBrowser I can load a 100% view with a synchronised pan and zoom on up to 4 images in 2 or 3 seconds. A side by side compare of 2 images loads in just over a second.

 

Mark

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1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

BreezeBrowser treats them as a linked pair and displays the jpg, but will tag, rate or delete them as a pair.

As you probably know Lightroom also does this as the default but in preferences you can elect to "treat jpegs as separate photos". I've never bothered shooting RAW plus jpegs until recently but I like the 'Provia' profile on my newly acquired Fuji X-Pro1 so I find it useful to have the jpeg side by side with the RAW to compare. However I made the mistake of importing all my images from a 'shoot' (sorry) which means after the cull (oops) I'm left with a lot of orphaned jpegs to delete which is tedious. I now think that it is better to import them all as pairs, do the edit and get rid of the chaff and then thanks to the Thomas Fitzgerald article below I realise that you can change the preference back to "treat jpegs as separate photos" and synchronise the folder to bring in the jpegs for the remaining RAWs, or rather make them appear in Lightroom alongside the RAW files. It's also true to say that some are unhappy at the RAW processing of Fuji files in Lightroom, the 'worm' effect, so I figure that it might be good to have an in-camera processed jpeg for comparison in certain situations (mainly foliage I think).

 

https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2014/08/managing-raw-jpeg-files-lightroom

 

Any suggestions of a better workflow gratefully received.

Edited by Harry Harrison
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2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

Any suggestions of a better workflow gratefully received.

 

Try BreezeBrowser 🙂 ?? Seriously though, it does seem to handle RAWs and JPGs (at the culling stage) rather well... Then, after the dross has been removed,  import the remaining images into LR.

 

Mark

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3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

As you probably know Lightroom also does this as the default but in preferences you can elect to "treat jpegs as separate photos". I've never bothered shooting RAW plus jpegs until recently but I like the 'Provia' profile on my newly acquired Fuji X-Pro1 so I find it useful to have the jpeg side by side with the RAW to compare. However I made the mistake of importing all my images from a 'shoot' (sorry) which means after the cull (oops) I'm left with a lot of orphaned jpegs to delete which is tedious. I now think that it is better to import them all as pairs, do the edit and get rid of the chaff and then thanks to the Thomas Fitzgerald article below I realise that you can change the preference back to "treat jpegs as separate photos" and synchronise the folder to bring in the jpegs for the remaining RAWs, or rather make them appear in Lightroom alongside the RAW files. It's also true to say that some are unhappy at the RAW processing of Fuji files in Lightroom, the 'worm' effect, so I figure that it might be good to have an in-camera processed jpeg for comparison in certain situations (mainly foliage I think).

 

https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2014/08/managing-raw-jpeg-files-lightroom

 

Any suggestions of a better workflow gratefully received.


 

I don’t know if there are still problems with Fuji raw files and Lightroom but a much slicker and more modern way to do this would be to use the camera profile provided by Adobe based on the in-camera presets as a starting point. This will probably only work in CC so that may be a step too far for you. Anyway check out this video by Juleanne Kost explaining how this works. 

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22 minutes ago, MDM said:

I don’t know if there are still problems with Fuji raw files and Lightroom but a much slicker and more modern way to do this would be to use the camera profile provided by Adobe based on the in-camera presets as a starting point

I believe there still are problems but someone using CC with Fuji can correct me. I found Phil's recommendation of Iridient X-Transformer very worthwhile but staying inside LR is just too convenient. In fact I could use that and still work within Lightroom so that might be the best alternative. I know that CC Lightroom has all these extra profiles, too many by the looks of it (artistic, vintage etc.) but I'm happy with the built-in Fuji profiles and my own camera specific profiles that I created with the Macbeth Color Checker, so I could create virtual copies from the RAW files with these profiles as a comparison, but for now I'm quite liking the jpeg route.

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13 hours ago, IanDavidson said:

You may find that photo mechanic is the solution.  Although designed for news and sports photographers, for you the opening, ranking and culling is Super fast.  ,  You can download a trial version.  It is not totally intuitive but it does not take long to learn and integrates fine with editing tools.  It increased my workflow bu over 50%. 

 

Thank you for the tip Ian. 

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13 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

I don't suppose you get a lot of printing done out there in the Outback but the Print module in Lightroom is excellent also, easy to setup an infinite number of layouts for single images or contact sheets for multiple images etc. along  with associated printer and paper settings so you can just select your saved setup and choose whichever image(s) to print.

 

Not so keen on either the Book or Web modules, a little primitive and gimmicky imho.

 

Thank you Harry. I used to have a good Epsom photo printer but no more. I did buy a small printer for life on the road but it turned out I couldn't fit it anywhere in the motorhome. It can be a real pain to find a place to print documents anywhere as they are afraid of viruses on memory sticks. The way around it is to send the document as an attachment to an e-mail to them.  Of course, we're not talking about photos here. I digress.

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I'm definately not afraid of trying new things and I did try Lightroom albeit many years ago.

 

 A friend of mine sent me some tutorials on dvd's/cd's whatever they were,  this was back in the day before so many tutorials on the web.  So.....I put the disks in my laptop and went through each step on my desktop, pausing it as and when I needed to.

 

 At the end of a very long day I just still didn't get it and ended up with a migraine☺️  However, I guess much has changed since then and maybe now it's easier.  For now I'm more than happy with my workflow using Bridge and PS.  I've never not been able to find a file quickly for past clients however many years old they are.  I also do backups on 2 external hard drives.  

 

Someone mentioned Breezebrowser, wow I remember using that when I had Windows back in the day.    Also there was another programme called Rawshooter (could be showing my age here!) that was very good but it ceased to exist after a while.  

 

So much useful information on this forum and again thanks for straightening me out with the straighten tool and a few others.😉

 

MDM I hope your recovery goes from strength to strength and Edo I hope the ginger is helping your hay fever.  

 

Carol

 

 

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15 minutes ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

 

 

Someone mentioned Breezebrowser, wow I remember using that when I had Windows back in the day.    Also there was another programme called Rawshooter (could be showing my age here!) that was very good but it ceased to exist after a while.  

 

 

 

Carol

 

 

 

I remember Rawshooter Essentials

 

Adobe bought Pixmantec and integrated Rawshooter into Lightroom. 

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