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1 hour ago, Colin Woods said:

Along with Lemmy,  Hitchens is one of the few heroes I still have. Much missed and more relevant now than ever.

 

Agreed... about Hitch rather than Lemmy. There isn't a week goes by when I don't watch him (and Harris, and Dawkins) on YouTube...

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28 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

What surprises me most about this thread is the righteous angry so many of you show to having any controls or limitations whatsoever on shooting pictures of strangers or things in a private or semi-private place. What is it you think security guards are supposed to be doing? I agree with Dusty about being obvious rather than trying to be invisible. I just go about things as if I have permission to shoot. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ed, most of these posts are about photography in public places, not private. So there are no "controls or limitations". Even in private property security guards' powers are much more limited than they try to make out. What they are not supposed to be doing is exceeding those powers or obstructing lawful activity.

One problem, at least in the UK, is the creeping privatisation of what would once have been public space in new developments. Public authorities cede rights to developers and the public are admitted, but on suffrance, not as of right, but it's less and less clear where this is the case.

Edited by spacecadet
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3 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Ed, most of these posts are about photography in public places, not private. So there are no "controls or limitations". Even in private property security guards' powers are much more limited than they try to make out. What they are not supposed to be doing is exceeding those powers or obstructing lawful activity.

One problem, at least in the UK, is the creeping privatisation of what would once have been public space in new developments. Public authorities cede rights to developers and the public are admitted, but on suffrance, not as of right, but it's less and less clear where this is the case.

 

thanks for the clarification.  In Canada a market would likely be private space. 

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32 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

What surprises me most about this thread is the righteous angry so many of you show to having any controls or limitations whatsoever on shooting pictures of strangers or things in a private or semi-private place. What is it you think security guards are supposed to be doing? I agree with Dusty about being obvious rather than trying to be invisible. I just go about things as if I have permission to shoot. 

 

In NYC Subways, the cops have stopped me from shooting a couple of times and told me shooting in the Subways is against the law. It is not against the law, but I just thank the officer and take the train to another station. 

 

When I was doing travel marketing shoots for airlines, I would get the client to give me two letters of introduction, one in English the other in the language of the country I was going to. Now days, being semi-retired and shooting only editorial stock, I don't feel overly concerned about having a problem with any one subject or image. I just move on. In the long ago, when I was a hardcore PJ, I followed just one rule: get the picture. I was shooting in the Duke Street Food and Drink Market today. Nobody paid me any attention. 

 

 

 

 

In the Montreal market incident that I mentioned, I'm not sure what the security guard was supposed to be doing. There were no signs in the public market (or on their website) prohibiting photography, and the guard couldn't give me a good reason why I shouldn't be taking pictures. Also, no one else appeared to mind. If they had, I would have bought a bag of fresh Quebec apples and gone on my way. That said, photographing people in public isn't as easy or enjoyable as it used to be.

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17 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

 

thanks for the clarification.  In Canada a market would likely be private space. 

 

... but they still call them "public markets" for the most part. Perhaps the powers that be should start calling them "private markets" instead, which would clarify things but which might not be too good for business.

Edited by John Mitchell

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18 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Ed, most of these posts are about photography in public places, not private. So there are no "controls or limitations". Even in private property security guards' powers are much more limited than they try to make out. What they are not supposed to be doing is exceeding those powers or obstructing lawful activity.

One problem, at least in the UK, is the creeping privatisation of what would once have been public space in new developments. Public authorities cede rights to developers and the public are admitted, but on suffrance, not as of right, but it's less and less clear where this is the case.

 

Yes, the creeping privatisation of public places is a real problem. We are welcome in the malls and shopping centre, but only in the guise of customers and consumers. I like to register my objection whenever possible, by challenging the authority of security guards who over-estimate their powers...

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36 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

 

thanks for the clarification.  In Canada a market would likely be private space. 

Most markets in the UK are outdoors, in the street. There are indoor markets, but even so, many of these belong to local authorities, who tend not to police them in the way private owners do.

I operate the David Kilpatrick rule. If there's no sign, and even if there is, if no-one tries to stop me, the place is fair game. If they try to stop me and aren't justified, it's still fair game. Any further interference and it's a matter for the police, who will tell them the facts of life. Anyway their only remedy is to ask you to leave. Insisting on deletion, with any sort of implied threat at all,  is the offence of criminal damage in the UK. Trespass is not a criminal offence here.

That said, this sort of photography isn't something I do much of. But not because of the threat of interference.

Of course, should I be lawfully told to stop, what I already have is mine. See criminal damage.

Edited by spacecadet
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14 minutes ago, John Morrison said:

 

security guards who over-estimate their powers...

Yes, they have some very creative ideas about privacy and permission. They do tend to back off when challenged on the law, or invent something else you're not allowed to do.

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21 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

... but they still call them "public markets" for the most part. Perhaps the powers that be should start calling them "private markets" instead, which would clarify things but which might not be too good for business.

 

yeah I know.  They seem to use the word Public as openness, but don't like the implication.  

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Too many people think that all it takes to 'lay down the law' is a loud voice and an overbearing attitude. Security guards aren't used to being challenged... especially by people who know more than they do about our rights and responsibilities...

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I was once taking photos of a fishmonger who had a stall on a public street who remonstrated with me. When I pointed out that I was in a public place and had every right to take photos of whatever I liked, he said to me ' you do realise I have a knife in my hand'. Which was of course worrying but replied threats will still not stop me exercising my rights and pointed out his customers were witness to the threats he was making and just carried on.

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9 minutes ago, BobD said:

replied threats will still not stop me exercising my rights

 

I've been 'apprehended' by military police (near Sellafield, BAE in Barrow, Menwith Hill, etc). When I'm approached by unsmiling men with semi-automatic rifles, I tend to forget about my rights for a few minutes... 😮

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2 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Steamed is best, with a little cheese sauce perhaps. 😋

Drench the whole head with olive oil, season heavily with garlic salt, then bake in an uncovered dish, med heat until golden brown. May take an hour.

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I have no problems. Markets, mall, Walmart, parking lots while getting storefronts. Some people glance at me, but I guess they perceive no threat.

Inside stores, I do tend to be sneaky. I probably make myself look guilty as h***.
Outdoors, it’s business as usual.

I’ve only had three inquiries, one a definite argument but well over 10 years ago. Little did I know there was a well-publicized property dispute in progress.

The second was a young, fresh-faced highway patrolman who saw me photographing an oil well pumper jack. Soon as I explained about stock, he was fascinated. Said I reminded him of his grandma 😩 (well, I was a grandma at 37 so it’s ok) then not only answered my questions about where I could go to photograph the wheat harvest, but said, “follow me.”

My grandmahood just kicked in and I don’t remember the third. 😉

Betty

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1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said:

Drench the whole head with olive oil, season heavily with garlic salt, then bake in an uncovered dish, med heat until golden brown. May take an hour.

 

Sounds tasty, but unfortunately I'm on a low-sodium regime due to blood pressure concerns.

 

Cauliflower is also good "stewed" with tomatoes and onions -- top with Parmesan cheese and serve over brown rice. Makes an easy and nutritious meal.

 

Now back to the market...

 

 

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2 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Drench the whole head with olive oil, season heavily with garlic salt, then bake in an uncovered dish, med heat until golden brown. May take an hour.

 

Our preferred option is to lightly steam then coat with an onion and cheese and garlic sauce, with seasoning to taste, but the baking solution sounds interesting!

 

The purchased cauli was delicious BTW.

Edited by Bryan

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5 hours ago, dustydingo said:

 

 

 

I work very hard to avoid anyone seeing me taking a photo in such a way that it would look to them like I was hiding the fact. And I try to catch the eye of folk around me to acknowledge I've seen them, they've seen me, a friendly nod of the head "hello" . . . and I walk with my DSLR well and truly visible.

 

I also find this approach has opened doors for me over the years, with even the occasional "come over here, you'll get a better view" invites allowing me to go beyond official barriers, away from all the mobile phones hovering in the air and getting in the way of eye-level shots.

 

 

 

Yes it's not all bad news, I was once shooting in a market when a stallholder pointed out an obscure door, marked private, she said  "Ignore the sign", and it lead to a flight of stairs enabling me to obtain photos from a balcony above. 

 

We are potentially giving these people free publicity, and if they are not doing anything underhand, I would have thought that must be positive.

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6 hours ago, John Morrison said:

There isn't a week goes by when I don't watch him (and Harris, and Dawkins) on YouTube...

Absolutely - electrifying arguments, dazzling use of english and a phenomenal memory. A Talisker or two and Hitch on Youtube and my evening is made. His books are excellent too, especially god is not great.

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Glad I live here - never a problem

 

 

 

thailand-street-food-vendor-happy-smilin

 

muslin-meat-stall-advising-chicken-only-

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4 hours ago, Bryan said:

 

Yes it's not all bad news, I was once shooting in a market when a stallholder pointed out an obscure door, marked private, she said  "Ignore the sign", and it lead to a flight of stairs enabling me to obtain photos from a balcony above. 

 

We are potentially giving these people free publicity, and if they are not doing anything underhand, I would have thought that must be positive.

 

That's true. A number of my images captured in markets have been used in travel guides, which is certainly good publicity. However, I can understand why people object to being photographed in public without their knowledge, especially in the age of "snap and tweet". Unfortunately, candid photos are almost always the best ones. Photographing cauliflowers should be a bit less threatening, though... 😉

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Of the 100 images on my port first page, 27 were taken in markets including some in the M&S Foodhall. 

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22 hours ago, Alex Ramsay said:

Used to be that when I appeared on a building site (commissioned by the architects) half the builders would vanish when they saw the camera. Once the word went round that I wasn't from the DSS they would all reappear.

 

Alex

yYes, was just remembering going out to shoot construction on the fly.. Not on private property; is not taken well; and tracts the wrong sort of attention. Best to  keep moving. But all good when you are commissioned; as I too sometimes were --?

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9 hours ago, Colin Woods said:

Absolutely - electrifying arguments, dazzling use of english and a phenomenal memory. A Talisker or two and Hitch on Youtube and my evening is made. His books are excellent too, especially god is not great.

 

Yes, I have most of his books. I'm busy writing one myself, which a library or bookshop would put on the same shelf as God is not Great. Hitchens is my touchstone for lucidity and well-argued prose. We'll raise a glass in his memory...

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13 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Sounds tasty, but unfortunately I'm on a low-sodium regime due to blood pressure concerns.

 

Cauliflower is also good "stewed" with tomatoes and onions -- top with Parmesan cheese and serve over brown rice. Makes an easy and nutritious meal.

 

Now back to the market...

 

 

 

A little lemon juice is a good alternative to salt, achieves much the same seasoning result. I am sure it would combine well with fresh garlic.

 

I might try it...

Edited by Martin P Wilson

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9 hours ago, ReeRay said:

Glad I live here - never a problem

 

 

 

thailand-street-food-vendor-happy-smilin

 

muslin-meat-stall-advising-chicken-only-

 

Does everyone pose and give you a peace sign though? That in itself would be a problem for me as I would want these kind of shots to me natural in the main.

 

EDIT: Great shots BTW!

Edited by Matt Ashmore
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