Russell Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 It's a dark, wet day here in Hampshire so I thought I'd amuse myself by reading the Alamy contract. Although it says (effectively) if Alamy decides to terminate operation of the system, either party may terminate the contract. However there is nothing in the contract relating to the acquisition of Alamy by a third party and subsequent transfer of its contributor contracts to the third party. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Ashmore Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, geogphotos said: Since we are all pitching in ideas. I think that it is time to move on from 'crowd sourcing'. How that happens and it what shape and form I don't know. Contributors need incentives and reward. if the cake is cut too thinly everybody stays hungry. Let the red arrows fly! 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riccarbi Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Russell said: However there is nothing in the contract relating to the acquisition of Alamy by a third party and subsequent transfer of its contributor contracts to the third party. Technically, since Alamy remains a separate entity for the time being ("Alamy’s and PA Images’ archives will sit alongside each other. There are no plans to add Alamy’s portfolio to the PA Archive" and "At present, Alamy contributor sales continue to be managed within the Alamy platform and via Alamy’s distributors"), our contracts were not (not yet?) transferred to a third party. Edited February 13, 2020 by riccarbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Russell said: It's a dark, wet day here in Hampshire so I thought I'd amuse myself by reading the Alamy contract. Although it says (effectively) if Alamy decides to terminate operation of the system, either party may terminate the contract. However there is nothing in the contract relating to the acquisition of Alamy by a third party and subsequent transfer of its contributor contracts to the third party. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. based on my reading they purchased Alamy, so the entity still exist as a subsidiary. but i'm not an expert on acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Absolutely. Today Alamy exists as a separate entity and the contractual position re. contributors is unchanged. However the Alamy contributor contract seems never to have envisaged the company being taken over and merged with the acquiring party. As I said, I shall be interested in how it all works out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riccarbi Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Russell said: Absolutely. Today Alamy exists as a separate entity and the contractual position re. contributors is unchanged. However the Alamy contributor contract seems never to have envisaged the company being taken over and merged with the acquiring party. As I said, I shall be interested in how it all works out. Im not an expert, too. Yet, I guess if Alamy changes its legal status and VAT reg. nr., i.e it becomes a different legal entity, our contracts cease to be valid and to sign a new contract with the new entity should be required. Edited February 13, 2020 by riccarbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tadman Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, riccarbi said: Im not an expert, too. Yet, I guess if Alamy changes its legal status and VAT reg. nr., i.e it becomes a different legal entity, our contracts cease to be valid and to sign a new contract with the new entity should be required. Typically this would be handled by a novation of existing contracts from Alamy to PA Media group. The simplest way for this to occur would be for PA to write to existing contributors and tell them that they are taking over Alamy's contracts. That would then enable contributors to accept, again in its simplest form just by continuing to participate as before or alternatively not consenting in which case PA Media would presumably cancel all affected contracts. Common sense suggests that they are unlikely to buy a business and simultaneously, in the short term alienate all the contributors, so my presumption would be that in its simplest form PA would write to us and confirm that they are willing to take over the existing contracts as they currently stand. Time of course will tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Richard Tadman said: Common sense suggests that they are unlikely to buy a business and simultaneously, in the short term alienate all the contributors, so my presumption would be that in its simplest form PA would write to us and confirm that they are willing to take over the existing contracts as they currently stand. Time of course will tell. aren't they forced to, since the bought the whole business? i assume they get all the obligations that were part of it in the transaction lock, stock, and barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie5 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I for one will take comfort knowing our collective efforts will keep one ragged soul from living rough on the streets of Los Angeles. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/12/tour-the-inside-of-lachlan-murdochs-new-150-million-la-mansion.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tadman Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, meanderingemu said: aren't they forced to, since the bought the whole business? i assume they get all the obligations that were part of it in the transaction lock, stock, and barrel. Yes - that is normally the case with a going concern. My point was that it would be simpler for all parties concerned to accept or reject the new circumstances by their ongoing behaviour than for PA Media, Alamy and each contributor to separately have to renegotiate every individual contract. The unanswered question (without having trawled through the Alamy agreement) is how soon could P A Media amend the agreements by giving us notice, if they wished to? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsphinx Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 14 hours ago, AlexG said: Of plants? Some of them I am not able to easily identify. I'd love to do that. I will try to go through the photos again. One part of the stock learning curve - learn how to identify what it is you have taken a photo of. Like some people I do actually enjoy this bit and love finding out odd quirky facts about things. There is lots of help available on the forum - "what is this ****" work well as their are learned folks in lots of subjects (especially plants lol). You can also try image search engines for giggles to see your cat identified as a mushroom or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Devon Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 My understanding that "Alamy Limited" still exists as a separate company https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03807789 The shares in this company (which were privately held) have now been sold to PA Media - so that Alamy is now a wholly owned subsidiary of PA Media Group https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00004197 PA Media Group contains 21 subsidiary - either wholly or partially owned by the group PA Photos Limited is one of those subsidiarys https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03891060 So - At the moment Alamy Ltd and PA Photos will remain separate companies The Group may decide to continue to run them as separate companies - they are shown as separate brands on the group website - https://pamediagroup.com/our-brands/ Or they may decide, at some point, to change the structure - or work out how the two individual companies can help each other, maximising the strengths of both. Jools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brooks Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 How much did PA pay for Alamy and what are the terms and conditions to the deal? Is it good for photographers? We will know in a year. Preparing to sell a small company often takes 5 years. I do not think Alamy has been floundering, I think they have been tailoring Alamy to the needs of a potential buyer. Particularly in the last year or so. Just to add to the knowledge base. In 2019, while Alamy was implementing the future, and my collection went up by only a very small percentage, the number of my sales went up 25% and my revenue went up 25%. All of my images are RF or RF editorial, and I have all of my sales possibilities turned on. Including lower priced PU, NU, most international. I did collection maintenance. Culled over 2,000 of my less inspiring accepted images, updated and cleaned up my keywording. This was all in an attempt to have fewer bad views, but make more sales. I am not suggesting anyone do anything at this point, but I think we may have already caught a glimpse of the future. Image prices be damned. If the future with PA results in a higher monthly payout, I am all for it. Welcome PA, and thanks to James and Alamy staff for doing a great job, since 1998, in a difficult marketplace . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Jools Devon said: ... So - At the moment Alamy Ltd and PA Photos will remain separate companies The Group may decide to continue to run them as separate companies - they are shown as separate brands on the group website - https://pamediagroup.com/our-brands/ Or they may decide, at some point, to change the structure - or work out how the two individual companies can help each other, maximising the strengths of both. Jools The likelhood is they will start by consolidating the back office administration: billing, accounts etc, but that could be as a service 'sold' to the subsidiaries within the group. In that way it means that ALamy could stay a separate company with its own 'face'. Indeed it is possisle that PA could move some of their exisiting, more editorial/ general stock into Alamy, especially if ALamy has a better customer base. A lot depends on why PA bought Alamy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty LaRue Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 58 minutes ago, Bill Brooks said: Preparing to sell a small company often takes 5 years. I do not think Alamy has been floundering, I think they have been tailoring Alamy to the needs of a potential buyer. Particularly in the last year or so. I agree, Bill. I did think they were floundering, but now that this acquisition has come about, I realize what they were doing. Now I wonder when the percentage we get of our sales changed, then the mutiny happened, if Alamy consulted with PA before they offered us the exclusive option. That is, of course, if the PA deal was already in the works. Also wondering if it was in the works, if PA were the entity that suggested a change in our share of the sales to begin with. Sometimes it would be fun to be a fly on the wall. Betty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, geogphotos said: Since we are all pitching in ideas. I think that it is time to move on from 'crowd sourcing'. How that happens and it what shape and form I don't know. Contributors need incentives and reward. if the cake is cut too thinly everybody stays hungry. Let the red arrows fly! 😃 Somehow I don't think that the crowd is going away any time soon. We've seen the crowd, and it is us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, spacecadet said: My contract hasn't changed. Same here. But at least you get to drink yours. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Allsopp Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 11/02/2020 at 15:40, Phil said: Yep - done to make Alamy more financially palatable for sale. Yes, a good move for them - as for us birds on the bottom rung of the roost....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Masterton Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/nuj-calls-on-pa-media-group-to-treat-photographers-fairly/?fbclid=IwAR0_PVeedIg_-6bhXWkDmjsHcU2WePURIOCzPW2QSm2zEk_5xa4eGGiTlSQ 1 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, Iain Masterton said: https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/nuj-calls-on-pa-media-group-to-treat-photographers-fairly/?fbclid=IwAR0_PVeedIg_-6bhXWkDmjsHcU2WePURIOCzPW2QSm2zEk_5xa4eGGiTlSQ Thanks Ian very interesting Kumar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shergar Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Iain Masterton said: https://www.nuj.org.uk/news/nuj-calls-on-pa-media-group-to-treat-photographers-fairly/?fbclid=IwAR0_PVeedIg_-6bhXWkDmjsHcU2WePURIOCzPW2QSm2zEk_5xa4eGGiTlSQ Thanks Ian great job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, Johnnie5 said: I for one will take comfort knowing our collective efforts will keep one ragged soul from living rough on the streets of Los Angeles. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/12/tour-the-inside-of-lachlan-murdochs-new-150-million-la-mansion.html The house that Fox built (or bought, anyway). You have to admit that it's a remarkable place. The Beverly Hillbillies connection is interesting. I used to watch them on our b&w TV when I was a kid -- kind of dating myself there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 12/02/2020 at 04:46, Inchiquin said: I think I still have the earlier CSN album (without Y), but although this one was better I never bought it because a friend taped it for me. Alan Love that album. I have that and several more. They were my faves in high school. Saw them in concert years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, John Mitchell said: The house that Fox built (or bought, anyway). You have to admit that it's a remarkable place. The Beverly Hillbillies connection is interesting. I used to watch them on our b&w TV when I was a kid -- kind of dating myself there. Loved that show. I saw Pippin I believe it was on Broadway and Granny was in it. Years later I took my daughter to see it at a regional theater in Connecticut and Micky Dolenz (sp? of the Monkeys was in it.) Dating myself too. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie5 Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) A few Alamy photos here. The Story of Food: An Illustrated History of Everything We Eat https://books.google.com/books?id=ebqpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA359&lpg=PA359&dq=john+crowe+alamy+-russell+-+alamy&source=bl&ots=Ewt1neT-zw&sig=ACfU3U06KZ-Aixjvuad1pQEdPNFu5OCvfQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiR06O25c_nAhUVt54KHV1pCGg4ChDoATAHegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=john crowe alamy -russell - alamy&f=false This is what happens when you get cataracts. Posted in the wrong place. Edited February 14, 2020 by Johnnie5 Posted in the wrong place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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