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On 09/01/2020 at 12:42, BobGibbons said:

Can anyone recommend a good program for captioning, keywording, cataloging and searching a very large library of labelled pictures? For years, I used iview Media Pro (and predecessors) but the current owners have stopped supporting it, and it's now almost useless. Any suggestions welcome. Many thanks.

 

I mentioned NeoFinder earlier.  It is for the Mac but they make a similar app for Windows called abeMeda.  The reason I'm bringing it up again is because I have been playing a bit with it today and wanted to share a couple of things.  First of all, to me it is very similar to the old iView Media Pro software based on what I can remember...and it is definitely a cataloging app.  Unfortunately while it advertises iView compatibility, it does not import the iView catalogs directly.  Apparently you have to export XML files from iView and then import those which is something I can't do with my current Mac as I don't have iView and it's 32 bit.

 

If you liked iVew Media Pro, you will probably like this application as well as it seems to have the same features and adds more.

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I'm curious about what other features these cataloging apps add that LR doesn't? LR lets you search by keyword, year, month or even day of shoot, camera used, lens used, file name, and it also lets you make collections with virtual copies so you don't need to make unnecessary duplicates of files. 

 

 

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I use Adobe Bridge, that comes with photoshop, to both keyword new images, and to search a hard disc image archive with 31,413 keyworded image files.

 

Bridge does not alphabetize your keywords, so I put the supertags first and that is the order they come into Alamy AIM.

 

Bridge also allows you to build a keyword tree so one click on one keyword will give you all related keywords right up the tree. You can use the tree over and over again. A few clicks and you may have 30 related keywords.

 

The search function in Bridge works and looks like the client search page on the Alamy site.

 

I think both keyword and search functions in Bridge are more robust than anything else available.

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

With Irident X-Transformer's Fuji RAF>DNG converter it seems that Fuji's camera film sim profiles are carried thru metadata and can be changed in LR's Camera Profiles. 

Thanks, I'll look into that, I only used the Adobe DNG converter.

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1 hour ago, Marianne said:

I'm curious about what other features these cataloging apps add that LR doesn't? LR lets you search by keyword, year, month or even day of shoot, camera used, lens used, file name, and it also lets you make collections with virtual copies so you don't need to make unnecessary duplicates of files. 

 

 

Marianne, I agree with you.  Other than being locked into the Adobe subscription service, I think Lightroom is as good or better than any.  My interest in the iView alternative stems from having a bunch of DVDs cataloged with it prior to my switching to LR.  But I've since decided to move all my DVD's to Hard Drive and will re-catalog them in LR.

 

Incidentally a lot of the apps mentioned in this thread are good image management programs but only a couple are actual cataloging apps.

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I use iMatch by Photools.com. There is no image retouching/editing capability. It is all cataloging of the image database. Keywording capabilities are nice and can be thesaurus based if you build the thesaurus. I manage 175,000 images now and started in 2003.

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3 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

I use Adobe Bridge, that comes with photoshop, to both keyword new images, and to search a hard disc image archive with 31,413 keyworded image files.

 

Bridge does not alphabetize your keywords, so I put the supertags first and that is the order they come into Alamy AIM.

 

Bridge also allows you to build a keyword tree so one click on one keyword will give you all related keywords right up the tree. You can use the tree over and over again. A few clicks and you may have 30 related keywords.

 

The search function in Bridge works and looks like the client search page on the Alamy site.

 

I think both keyword and search functions in Bridge are more robust than anything else available.

 

Bill - what are you comparing Bridge to? Have you ever used Lightroom?

 

I used to use Bridge from the time it was released with PSCS2 but switched to Lightroom in 2012. There is no comparison between them in terms of searching in my experience - Lightroom is orders of magnitude faster. Furthermore, Bridge would frequently lose the thumbnail cache as well and I would have to generate all the thumbnails and let it index the metadata which would take ages. I have never had to do anything like that with Lightroom - it is far more stable and robust in my experience. Aside from alphabetising the keywords (not something that concerns me), I can't see any advantage of Bridge over Lightroom.  I think Bridge is a useful program for certain things (great file browswer) but not as a data manager for any even moderately large image collection.

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Makes me laugh when people complain about the LR subscription model.  I know of no other computer programme which is such good value for money AND makes money for the user.  After all, Alamy is a professional 'thing', so to be professional one has to use the best possible tools for the job.  I pay €12.50 per month and I think it's the bargain of the century.

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29 minutes ago, Colblimp said:

Makes me laugh when people complain about the LR subscription model.  I know of no other computer programme which is such good value for money AND makes money for the user.  After all, Alamy is a professional 'thing', so to be professional one has to use the best possible tools for the job.  I pay €12.50 per month and I think it's the bargain of the century.

 

I totally agree. When I started Photoshop cost hundreds of £ and I used Elements. People were scrabbling around with all sorts of dodgy rip off copies of Photoshop and trying to find ways of doing things on the cheap.

 

Less than £10 a month is a real bargain, and I don't even use Lightroom and all the rest of it. A very reasonable business expense to be able to use the very best that is available.

 

 

Edited by geogphotos

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2 hours ago, geogphotos said:

and I don't even use Lightroom

With respect there are very different implications when it comes to Lightroom. I don't think that many who, like me, are not fans of the subscription model are complaining about the cost, it is clearly very good value if you use Photoshop. If you don't use Lightroom and haven't invested many hundreds of hours in your catalogues over the years  then it is difficult to understand why Lightroom users might be reluctant to move to the subscription model if they don't have to. You can't move to Photoshop CC and still run Lightroom Perpetual.

Edited by Harry Harrison
subscription, not prescription!

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14 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

With respect there are very different implications when it comes to Lightroom. I don't think that many who, like me, are not fans of the subscription model are complaining about the cost, it is clearly very good value if you use Photoshop. If you don't use Lightroom and haven't invested many hundreds of hours in your catalogues over the years  then it is difficult to understand why Lightroom users might be reluctant to move to the prescription model if they don't have to. You can't move to Photoshop CC and still run Lightroom Perpetual.

 

My apologies if it seemed I was criticising others. I really don't even understand the issues and problems that you mention let alone have an opinion.

 

I was simply agreeing with ColBlimp over what a great deal the Adobe subscription is - even if like me you only use Photoshop and not the rest of it.

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2 hours ago, geogphotos said:

 

My apologies if it seemed I was criticising others

No offence taken!

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17 hours ago, mickfly said:

The same choice is available inn the LT import screen.

Its not as fast and uses thumbnails.  In less time than the LR import screen forms thumbnails Photomechanic has generated full sized previews so you can inspect for sharpenss at 100% before deciding to import.

There is also the variables, which I really miss having in LR - in Photomechanic I can set it to create text of things that change without me doing anything - say {imn3}-{idy0}-{iyr4} to generate the date - these variables cover hundreds of things and can be used in any field.  You can also create and unlimited number of code replacement lists with unlimited code replacements on each so you can generate a complete description or title or whatever with minimal typing after just taking a couple of seconds to specify which list or lists you are using.  So I can have a list for team A, one for team B and one for common situations  - I specify I am using those 3 lists and type /A10 sh o gk B1 sc/  and get Brian jones of town united shoots at opposition goalkeeper Fred Brown of town rangers and scores (those are not actual code replacements just an example but you get the idea).

I just find Photo mechic far more flexible and faster - not to mention it is not tied to one piece of editing software.  It does not matter if I am using LR, PS, Illustrator or even just Paint I can catalogue arrange view etc from Photo mechanic in seconds. 

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15 hours ago, Marianne said:

I'm curious about what other features these cataloging apps add that LR doesn't? LR lets you search by keyword, year, month or even day of shoot, camera used, lens used, file name, and it also lets you make collections with virtual copies so you don't need to make unnecessary duplicates of files. 

 

 

 

first not everyone uses LR.  Second as some as found depending on a subscription software that can be terminated unilaterally at the whims of politicians could be stressful for some.  

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19 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

Second as some as found depending on a subscription software that can be terminated unilaterally at the whims of politicians could be stressful for some.  

I'm with you on that but I was surprised that I hadn't heard any more about it since October. It seems that Adobe reached an agreement with the US government so that they could after all supply users in Venezuela, and they compensated those users whose accounts they had cancelled. Always surprised that it was only Adobe that was reported to have taken such action.

 

https://www.silicon.co.uk/projects/software-vendors/adobe-restores-services-venezuela-300341

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4 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

I'm with you on that but I was surprised that I hadn't heard any more about it since October. It seems that Adobe reached an agreement with the US government so that they could after all supply users in Venezuela, and they compensated those users whose accounts they had cancelled. Always surprised that it was only Adobe that was reported to have taken such action.

 

https://www.silicon.co.uk/projects/software-vendors/adobe-restores-services-venezuela-300341

 

 

thanks that's interesting.  It is sad in this new protectionist environment we are moving that we can all become pawn of geo-political fights.  though messing up my portfolio would probably be one of the lesser consequences   

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On 10/01/2020 at 10:37, Thomas Kyhn said:

 

I use Lightroom too, and I am happy with it in this regard, except for a few quirks, such as not being able to delete multiple keywords at the same time.

Not entirely sure what you mean by this but you can delete more than one keyword - in fact you can delete all if you want. Highlight the ones to delete then click the minus symbol in the top bar.

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2 hours ago, Starsphinx said:

Its not as fast and uses thumbnails.  In less time than the LR import screen forms thumbnails Photomechanic has generated full sized previews so you can inspect for sharpenss at 100% before deciding to import.

There is also the variables, which I really miss having in LR - in Photomechanic I can set it to create text of things that change without me doing anything - say {imn3}-{idy0}-{iyr4} to generate the date - these variables cover hundreds of things and can be used in any field.  You can also create and unlimited number of code replacement lists with unlimited code replacements on each so you can generate a complete description or title or whatever with minimal typing after just taking a couple of seconds to specify which list or lists you are using.  So I can have a list for team A, one for team B and one for common situations  - I specify I am using those 3 lists and type /A10 sh o gk B1 sc/  and get Brian jones of town united shoots at opposition goalkeeper Fred Brown of town rangers and scores (those are not actual code replacements just an example but you get the idea).

I just find Photo mechic far more flexible and faster - not to mention it is not tied to one piece of editing software.  It does not matter if I am using LR, PS, Illustrator or even just Paint I can catalogue arrange view etc from Photo mechanic in seconds. 

Using the two in conjunction works best for me. If I have a lot of images to import or need to do it fast for a news thing (and can have pre-written my captions and other metadata) I use Photomechanic first, but the search functions and keywording are I think better done in LR.

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16 hours ago, Marianne said:

and it also lets you make collections with virtual copies so you don't need to make unnecessary duplicates of files. 

Marianne, I'm sure that you know this but just for clarity you don't have to create virtual copies for the same image to appear in different collections. You probably have your own reasons for doing so though, so that they have different (_copy) filenames perhaps.

Edited by Harry Harrison

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18 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Marianne, I'm sure that you know this but just for clarity you don't have to create virtual copies for the same image to appear in different collections. You probably have your own reasons for doing so though, so that they have different (_copy) filenames perhaps.

The only reason I'd do this is I wanted to delete an image on Alamy and resubmit a newly processed one so I can have different Alamy references.

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22 minutes ago, Sally said:
On 10/01/2020 at 11:37, Thomas Kyhn said:

I use Lightroom too, and I am happy with it in this regard, except for a few quirks, such as not being able to delete multiple keywords at the same time.

Not entirely sure what you mean by this but you can delete more than one keyword - in fact you can delete all if you want. Highlight the ones to delete then click the minus symbol in the top bar.

 

You're right! I wasn't aware that it worked with the minus button, I always used the Delete option in the contextual menu, which for some reason only deletes the last of the selected keywords. In any case, if you have a long list of keywords and you want to delete some further down the list, you'd then have to scroll back and forth between the minus button and the keywords in question. As a workaround I usually group keywords to be delete under another keyword I want to delete and then delete the latter.

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I promise this is the last time I will mention NeoFinder...today.  But reading through the manual I see I can easily catalog my Lightroom images.  Why would I want to do this?  Well it's nice to have a backup, especially if I someday move away from lightroom.  But also NeoFinder has a built-in Adobe XML editor so you can add captions, keywords, etc. in NeoFinder and they will show up in Lightroom and vice versa.  Not sure if the keyword editor in NeoFinder is better but it is different.  In the Mac version, you also have access to addition ways to tag images by Label, Comment, and Tags.  I think I am going to buy this app as it looks very useful.  They do have a very good non-expiring demo.

 

https://www.cdfinder.de/guide/3/3.14/catalog_lightroom.html

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3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

It does seem from this forum thread that the development of PhotoMechanic Plus Beta, which includes cataloguing, is pretty active now. I'd be interested to know if any Photo Mechanic users have tried it.

 

http://forums.camerabits.com/index.php?topic=12753.0

I am still on PM 5 - which still easily does everything I need it to.    Once I have funds available I will almost certainly change to 6 - but the quality of the software is such that there is no urgency.  Someone once said about camerabits its nice to have a small dedicated developer who produces clean fast software that does what it needs to do without a ton of bloatware and unnecessary bells and whistles - and I totally agree.  Wish some bigger developers could consider the same focus.

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