Stranger in a Strange Land

[Betty LaRue]

On 15/12/2020 at 09:47, wiskerke said:

 

Yes top speeds per country. Actual speed limits on the road can be lower.

 

In The Netherlands, the map says 130 kmh / 80 mph but we went back to 100kmh / 60mph during the day and 120/75 at night in many places.

All very confusing. It used to be a quite uniform 100/60 in built up areas or 120/75 in the rest of the country, but the populists wanted 130/80 everywhere. And they got it, in spite of protests from environmentalists and various road safety advocacy groups,

But lots of roads were not built for that, think radius or too many ramps and exits in a short stretch, so there had to be lots of places with 120 or 100km limits, which in some places could then be 130km at night.

Now it all reverted back to a much more strict 100km than ever before. Not because of the environmentalists, but because of the farmers lobby. Farmers on the highway? No it was the NOx limits they could/would not/refused to observe/have been refusing for 30 years. (First EU NOx limits were put in place in 1991.)

So it was house building and road traffic that got new NOx limits. (61% of NOx comes from agriculture and 4-6% from traffic here!) It's mainly livestock farming (46%) that produces it. NO2 and NH3 are the main culprits and they come from slurry or liquid manure (dung mixed with pee produces ammonia: only a problem in stables not on land).

The vocal farmers in this are firmly in the populist camp, so those remain quiet now. The farmers have got a taste of blood power and they are blocking supermarket distribution centers in the midst of the Corona/Covid lock down that has started this morning and will last 5 weeks until mid January. All to ward off any caps on their 61% of NOx. No they don't say that, now it's about fair prices for milk etc, which is a valid point. But in reality it's about keeping your troops in the front line.

 

wikipedia stikstofcrisis

 

yesterday

 

Btw The Netherlands is the major producer and exporter of NOx in Europe per sq km or mile, not so much per head.

Yesterday we had a run on bread in the supermarkets. Supermarkets will remain open during lock down.

There you have it: everything is intertwined with speed limits these days: bread and cars.

Anyone remembering Kanonen statt Butter (guns or butter) from school? I do! But they always told us it was the Nazis Goering and Hess. Now it turns out it was Woodrow Wilson where this originated.

 

Learned enough for today - back to editing digitized B/W film contact sheets.

 

wim

 

edit1: links

edit2: It used to be a quite uniform 100/60 in built up areas or 120/75 in the rest of the country

Umm, what is NOx?

[wiskerke]

6 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Never heard them called road trains before. Huh.

 

Triple trailers for you then. Maybe they don't venture into Kansas. The wiki article is an interesting read (for traffic nerds 😁).

On the road from Salt Lake to Reno they're quite common. I had almost forgotten to take pictures. Besides I was worried about missing the extreme bike races, halfway in Battle Mountain, which in the end I indeed missed. Here's someone (I know) who goes there every year as a photographer.

 

NOx is generic for nitrogen oxides. Nasty stuff in the air and in the soil. Bad for your lungs and it acts as a good fertilizer for the wrong plants like stinging nettles. Nice plants like orchids die.

 

wim

[Betty LaRue]

1 minute ago, wiskerke said:

 

Triple trailers for you then. Maybe they don't venture into Kansas. The wiki article is an interesting read (for traffic nerds 😁).

On the road from Salt Lake to Reno they're quite common. I had almost forgotten to take pictures. Besides I was worried about missing the extreme bike races, halfway in Battle Mountain, which in the end I indeed missed. Here's someone (I know) who goes there every year as a photographer.

 

NOx is generic for nitrogen oxides. Nasty stuff in the air and in the soil. Bad for your lungs and it acts as a good fertilizer for the wrong plants like stinging nettles. Nice plants like orchids die.

 

wim

 I just always said, “I passed a semi hauling 3 trailers.” Nobody in my hearing ever called them road trains. Or even triple trailers, although I should have thought it myself.  I’ve most definitely dealt with a few on the road, and on a windy day it feels like I’m taking my life in my hands to pass one with them acting like hula dancers.

Thanks for explaining NOx.

[Allan Bell]

We have a program on TV called "Outback Truckers" which is of the Au Road Trains. Sometimes it is an interesting watch.

 

Allan

 

[Bryan]

Re NOx etc.  Some years ago, when electric cars were first seriously mooted, I wrote a comment to the Times suggesting that, rather like in New York at the start of the 20th century where they banned large steam locomotives and the companies had to use electric traction within the city, the time was coming when internal combustion engine powered cars would be banned from our city centres. Predictably perhaps, this enraged the petrol heads and I was denounced as being worse than an imbecile.  

 

Similarly, when I had the temerity to suggest that it would be preferable to use electric home delivery vans the director of one such company accused me of suggesting the impossible and that I should confine my comments to subjects about which I had some knowledge. Some months later it was announced that one of these companies had bought a fleet of electric delivery vehicles.

 

Mind you, I think that the long term future lies with hydrogen and fuel cell technology, rather than the heavy batteries crammed with increasingly expensive chemical components that might present considerable environmental difficulties at end of use. 

[Vincent Lowe]

When I was a wee lad - 50-60 years ago - and daily fresh milk deliveries to the door were the norm, the preferred vehicle was the electric 'milk float' ....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float#:~:text=Today%2C milk floats are usually,were operated by local dairies.

[AlbertSnapper]

On 15/12/2020 at 19:14, Bryan said:

 

Indeed I found driving on the unrestricted autobahns terrifying. Not towing fortunately but still a problem.  On one occasion we elected to travel through the night to avoid the traffic. Result inevitable darkness, it was raining heavily and the roads were still crowded, but no reduction in the top speeds. My wife said that she had never been so afraid on a car journey.  You pull out from behind a truck and somebody appears from nowhere doing well over 100. Why they allow this in such an otherwise well regulated country is beyond me.

 

 

I do quite a bit of driving in Germany in a truck. I know exactly what you mean when a car pulls out to overtake someone like me, for then out of nowhere another car is slamming on their brakes to avoid the car that has just pulled out. Frightening just seeing it. The difference between the speed of vehicles must be a factor in many accidents.

The autobahns in Germany are now getting quite a reputation for the heavy traffic, queues, many roadworks etc. A good way to slow traffic down !

Driving at night....glad we have the cats eyes in the UK.

 

I was working in the USA four years ago, driving a motorhome/RV. Driving thru Kansas at 8am on a Sunday morning, speed limit was 70mph. I was doing 65mph.

Cops pulled me over and asked why was I driving so slow. Had I been drinking ?!!!

 

I like the roadtrain pics Gvalle.

[Mr Standfast]

2 hours ago, Vincent Lowe said:

When I was a wee lad - 50-60 years ago - and daily fresh milk deliveries to the door were the norm, the preferred vehicle was the electric 'milk float' ....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float#:~:text=Today%2C milk floats are usually,were operated by local dairies.

 

 

Still a few around...

 

 

[Betty LaRue]

2 hours ago, AlbertSnapper said:

 

I do quite a bit of driving in Germany in a truck. I know exactly what you mean when a car pulls out to overtake someone like me, for then out of nowhere another car is slamming on their brakes to avoid the car that has just pulled out. Frightening just seeing it. The difference between the speed of vehicles must be a factor in many accidents.

The autobahns in Germany are now getting quite a reputation for the heavy traffic, queues, many roadworks etc. A good way to slow traffic down !

Driving at night....glad we have the cats eyes in the UK.

 

I was working in the USA four years ago, driving a motorhome/RV. Driving thru Kansas at 8am on a Sunday morning, speed limit was 70mph. I was doing 65mph.

Cops pulled me over and asked why was I driving so slow. Had I been drinking ?!!!

 

I like the roadtrain pics Gvalle.

Lol. I’m living in Kansas these days and I wouldn’t dream of going 65mph except still in the city limits, then it’s 68. Set the cruise on that and go. Once away from town, it’s 75, so I do 78. Three miles over isn’t blinked at by the highway patrol. I’ll be doing that in the morning on my way to my sister’s in Oklahoma.
Used to, when my husband drove from Oklahoma City to Kansas to see family, he’d poke at 65. Always hellbent on getting the best gasoline mileage.  Our grandsons were always saying, “You drive, Mimi, you’ll get here faster!”

[Bryan]

9 hours ago, AlbertSnapper said:

 

 

The autobahns in Germany are now getting quite a reputation for the heavy traffic, queues, many roadworks etc. A good way to slow traffic down !

Driving at night....glad we have the cats eyes in the UK.

 

I was working in the USA four years ago, driving a motorhome/RV. Driving thru Kansas at 8am on a Sunday morning, speed limit was 70mph. I was doing 65mph.

Cops pulled me over and asked why was I driving so slow. Had I been drinking ?!!!

 

I like the roadtrain pics Gvalle.

Yes we were amazed at the number of roadworks on the autobahns in Germany including sections completely closed. Driving a hire car with a built in satnav it seemed to pick up most issues but not a road closure, and of course it kept trying to get us back onto the closed section. Fortunately my technophobic wife had brought a map and she was able to navigate us past the closure. 

 

We normally tow a caravan and in the UK it's limited to 60 mph on the dual carriageways, but I think the limit is 50 in Germany. In France the limit varies according to the weight of the outfit, with local lower limits on steep motorway declines. You have just got to adjust to the lower speeds and maybe listen to some music.I try my best not to get in the way of the commercial traffic but on some of the steeper hills the car just doesn't have sufficient power. 

 

Which brings me to another road hazard, people who drive too slowly. We recently encountered a bloke driving an old army jeep at 40 on a busy two lane motorway, it caused all kinds of problems as all the traffic tried to funnel into the fast lane. There should perhaps be a minimum speed limit as well as a maximum.

[gvallee]

1 hour ago, Bryan said:

 There should perhaps be a minimum speed limit as well as a maximum.

 

Having had to take one of the trucks licenses to drive our minibus, I learnt that in Oz, you have to drive within 10% of the speed limit. Any slower, you could be liable to a fine and probably demerits. One always learns.

Edited December 18, 2020 by gvallee

[Phil Crean]

3 hours ago, Bryan said:

There should perhaps be a minimum speed limit as well as a maximum.

Here in Spain the minimum is 50% of the Maximum, unless traffic conditions dictate otherwise.

But it's rarely a problem as the default option here is to get in front of you at all costs, too often fatal costs 😪.

Phil

[Allan Bell]

Reminds me of a driver in Nottingham who was driving on a major dual carriageway with a limit of 40mph. He happened to doing 45 one day and was pulled and received a fixed penalty.

 

A few months later on the same stretch of road the traffic was a bit heavier and thinking about the previous fine he stuck to 40mph. A police car behind him used a loudspeaker system and told him to keep up with the faster moving traffic.

 

This was something I heard while living in Nottingham.

 

Allan

 

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, Phil Crean said:

Here in Spain the minimum is 50% of the Maximum, unless traffic conditions dictate otherwise.

But it's rarely a problem as the default option here is to get in front of you at all costs, too often fatal costs 😪.

Phil

 

Interesting, my experience of driving in northern Spain wasn't too bad, and, in particular, we found that crossing the road as pedestrians was much less hazardous than in most other places we've visited.  Go anywhere near a pedestrian crossing and the cars all stop !   The least disciplined driving we encountered was in southern Italy, very few signals given, dodgy manoeuvres, very fast etc etc.  Decided never to do it again. 

[Phil Crean]

Just now, Bryan said:

 

Interesting, my experience of driving in northern Spain wasn't too bad, and, in particular, we found that crossing the road as pedestrians was much less hazardous than in most other places we've visited.  Go anywhere near a pedestrian crossing and the cars all stop !   The least disciplined driving we encountered was in southern Italy, very few signals given, dodgy manoeuvres, very fast etc etc.  Decided never to do it again. 

I think the Canarians are a different breed😁

Phil

[Betty LaRue]

I do remember a time past when I used to see a minimum limit on the Interstates. Just for the reason you say, Bryan. Slowpokes caused risky maneuvers and road rage. I’ve not seen a minimum sign in ages, and never noticed they’d disappeared until now. Perhaps there are still some...just not around here.
 

Edit! And yes,I heard a talk once to a group from a highway patrolman. He said in heavy traffic, go with the flow even if all around you are speeding. Because to go slow was more dangerous.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Betty LaRue

[wiskerke]

12 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

I do remember a time past when I used to see a minimum limit on the Interstates. Just for the reason you say, Bryan. Slowpokes caused risky maneuvers and road rage. I’ve not seen a minimum sign in ages, and never noticed they’d disappeared until now. Perhaps there are still some...just not around here.
 

Edit! And yes,I heard a talk once to a group from a highway patrolman. He said in heavy traffic, go with the flow even if all around you are speeding. Because to go slow was more dangerous.

 

This is where adaptive cruise control comes in. Ours is not perfect, but a revelation nonetheless.

 

wim

[Betty LaRue]

2 hours ago, wiskerke said:

 

This is where adaptive cruise control comes in. Ours is not perfect, but a revelation nonetheless.

 

wim

The problem I had was I was once in the middle of a group of cars on a two-lane. I maintained the same speed as everyone. Highway patrol had set a speed trap and pulled us ALL over! Luckily I just got a warning ticket, but shook like an aspen leaf.

[Dyn Llun]

On 17/12/2020 at 19:59, Vincent Lowe said:

When I was a wee lad - 50-60 years ago - and daily fresh milk deliveries to the door were the norm, the preferred vehicle was the electric 'milk float' ....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float#:~:text=Today%2C milk floats are usually,were operated by local dairies.

...and when I was a kid in Cardiff we had electric double and single deck electric trolley buses powered by overhead cables. They were clean, quiet and had better acceleration than the regular buses. The poles connecting the bus to the overhead wires used to come off now and again stopping the bus. Then the bus conductor who collected the tickets etc. used to draw out a very long bamboo pole stored under the bus and re-connect the power connectors to the overhead wires. 

[Mr Standfast]

 

Down in the South west of England they take over taking very seriously...

Edited December 21, 2020 by Mr Standfast
spelling

[Allan Bell]

4 hours ago, Dyn Llun said:

...and when I was a kid in Cardiff we had electric double and single deck electric trolley buses powered by overhead cables. They were clean, quiet and had better acceleration than the regular buses. The poles connecting the bus to the overhead wires used to come off now and again stopping the bus. Then the bus conductor who collected the tickets etc. used to draw out a very long bamboo pole stored under the bus and re-connect the power connectors to the overhead wires. 

 

When I was a kid in Sunderland we had trams. Noisy and rattled along but great fun for us kids. Especially watching the conductor changing the overhead collector poles on the wires.

 

Hey! Perhaps that is why they are called conductors.

 

Allan

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Allan Bell

[aphperspective]

48 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said:

 

Down in the South west of England they take over taking very seriously...

When I lived in Devon during the summer months there would be a Caravan hung of the back of that blocking the road foe miles!.🙂

[Allan Bell]

3 hours ago, aphperspective said:

When I lived in Devon during the summer months there would be a Caravan hung of the back of that blocking the road foe miles!.🙂

 

Not to mention farm vehicles and trucks.

 

Allan

 

[Vincent Lowe]

7 hours ago, Dyn Llun said:

...and when I was a kid in Cardiff we had electric double and single deck electric trolley buses powered by overhead cables. They were clean, quiet and had better acceleration than the regular buses. The poles connecting the bus to the overhead wires used to come off now and again stopping the bus. Then the bus conductor who collected the tickets etc. used to draw out a very long bamboo pole stored under the bus and re-connect the power connectors to the overhead wires. 

 

Yes, we had trolley buses in Manchester as well though I don't remember single deckers.  I think they were only used in the early days.  The acceleration was amazing - you had to try to get to your seat before it took off. 

 

And I remember the long pole - I can still remember an almighty row between two drivers after one had tried to overtake another!

 

[Dyn Llun]

On 21/12/2020 at 17:07, Vincent Lowe said:

 

Yes, we had trolley buses in Manchester as well though I don't remember single deckers.  I think they were only used in the early days.  The acceleration was amazing - you had to try to get to your seat before it took off. 

 

And I remember the long pole - I can still remember an almighty row between two drivers after one had tried to overtake another!

 

The single deck trolley buses in Cardiff were used to go from the city centre down to the docks, or 'Tiger Bay' (where I had a girlfiend). There was a railway bridge across the road at the top of Bute Street that was too low for the double deckers.