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I agree with Mark on this. When I have made a pretty extreme straightening correction in ACR, it does have that 0 layer, and I just do a normal flatten to save. I have mine set up to remind me I have layers when I try to save and I get the same prompt with Layer 0. 

 

I don’t even know why I entered this conversation! 🤣 Non-technical me! Disregard anything I said, please.😊 I may as well be telling you how to take out someone’s tonsils.

Mark, I hope I didn’t injure your fine reputation by agreeing with you, lol.

Michael, you’ve been kinder to me than I deserve.

Betty

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12 hours ago, MDM said:

 

 

 

EDIT - if anyone has an explanation as to why and when a newly opened raw file gets a normal rather than a background layer, then I am happy to be corrected. That is the way to learn.😀

When I'm doing property shoots I often use Merge to HDR in Lightroom on the RAW files which then produces a DNG.

I save the DNG as a PSD and if I open it in PS it shows as a normal layer.

I then use the Create New background from Layer command to make it a Background....

 

Don't really know if that gives much insight into the workings of Layer/Background as I've absolutely no understanding of why it should happen this way but it is consistent.

Phil

 

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23 hours ago, MDM said:

 

No idea - that is very odd. Save your history in Preferences - History Log to Metadata and/or aText File and make sure you have Detailed checked. That way you should be able to see what has been happening with the file as it will record everything.  

 

Thanks - will check that. It used to be that following additional minor adjustments the file would be saved either in LR as another copy, or outside of LR with layers (hence work could be recommenced). But since the upgrade that seems to have changed.

Edited by BidC

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12 hours ago, MDM said:

EDIT - if anyone has an explanation as to why and when a newly opened raw file gets a normal rather than a background layer, then I am happy to be corrected. That is the way to learn.😀

 

I always duplicate the background layer before starting work, and then everything takes place in that layer - 

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9 hours ago, MDM said:

Click OK to make lens correction

 

So much easier in LR - LR is basically PS ACR. These probs don't arise. Further work (if layers needed) can then be done in PS and saved back (usually) to PS

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1 hour ago, BidC said:

 

I always duplicate the background layer before starting work, and then everything takes place in that layer - 

 

I am talking purely about the process of converting and opening a raw file into Photoshop, not what happens after that. The problem with duplicating  the  background layer is that the file can become very large and unwieldy, especially a 16-bit, 45MP file. Nowadays there is often no need to do this at all as it is often possible to work on a blank layer with sample all layers checked. This adds nothing or almost nothing to the file size. It works well for dust spots and other types of cloning.

 

 

1 hour ago, BidC said:

 

So much easier in LR - LR is basically PS ACR. These probs don't arise. Further work (if layers needed) can then be done in PS and saved back (usually) to PS

 

Preaching to the converted 😀. I have used Lightroom for years. Why anyone who has the Adobe photography plan still uses ACR instead of learning Lightroom is beyond me but that what was asked by the OP. I used to use ACR though so am familiar with its workings. 

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1 hour ago, Phil Crean said:

When I'm doing property shoots I often use Merge to HDR in Lightroom on the RAW files which then produces a DNG.

I save the DNG as a PSD and if I open it in PS it shows as a normal layer.

I then use the Create New background from Layer command to make it a Background....

 

Don't really know if that gives much insight into the workings of Layer/Background as I've absolutely no understanding of why it should happen this way but it is consistent.

Phil

 

 

Eureka. Good on ya Phil.🤣 You have hit the nail on the head there. I knew I had seen raw files open from Lightroom with a normal layer instead of a background layer but couldn't figure out how or why. I don't use Merge to HDR but I do Merge to Panoramas in Lightroom which creates a DNG file. And yes that opens with a normal rather than background layer and would have to be flattened or changed to a background layer to save automatically as a JPEG. It doesn't apply to normal DNGs created in ACR or Lightroom, only these merged ones. I wonder why they did it like this in fact. 

Edited by MDM
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20 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

I am talking purely about the process of converting and opening a raw file into Photoshop, not what happens after that. The problem with duplicating  the  background layer is that the file can become very large and unwieldy, especially a 16-bit, 45MP file. Nowadays there is often no need to do this at all as it is often possible to work on a blank layer with sample all layers checked. This adds nothing or almost nothing to the file size. It works well for dust spots and other types of cloning.

 

 

 

Preaching to the converted 😀. I have used Lightroom for years. Why anyone who has the Adobe photography plan still uses ACR instead of learning Lightroom is beyond me but that what was asked by the OP. I used to use ACR though so am familiar with its workings. 

 

Same :) - the raw file is easier to process in LR (imo). All the little things, like removing dust spots, and even Dodge and Burn seem quite easy there. The gradients are also more manageable (to me at least :) )

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48 minutes ago, BidC said:

 

Same :) - the raw file is easier to process in LR (imo). All the little things, like removing dust spots, and even Dodge and Burn seem quite easy there. The gradients are also more manageable (to me at least :) )

 

I still much prefer to do spotting and cloning if necessary in Photoshop as I find the various healing tools better and faster than in Lightroom. Also anything that requires precise selections and any serious retouching. But I do try to do as much of my processing as possible in Lightroom working on the raw files - the grad and radial filters are excellent. 

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16 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Mark, I hope I didn’t injure your fine reputation by agreeing with you, lol.

Betty

 

Not at all, I'm always pleased when someone agrees with me.😀

 

Mark

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On 17/09/2019 at 06:12, MDM said:

 

I still much prefer to do spotting and cloning if necessary in Photoshop as I find the various healing tools better and faster than in Lightroom. Also anything that requires precise selections and any serious retouching. But I do try to do as much of my processing as possible in Lightroom working on the raw files - the grad and radial filters are excellent. 

 

Totally agree - also with everything else you said. Excellent explanations about why you can't save certain images as jpegs (size, layers, no background layers)

 

LR is great and as they have added new tools it has gotten even better - I've used it since LR 1, but there are some things I still open in PS to do such as spotting (unless it's very minor)  and of course retouching, removing people or other things (love the way it can do so much automatically these days). 

 

One thing I do differently than you for dust spotting skies (and with my Sony mirrorless, I get so much more dust than with any of my Nikons or even my Olympus mirrorless - the auto sensor cleaning function helps a little but it can still be a mess - and with 42MP viewing at 200% there is probably just a lot more to notice which may be why it seems such a nightmare). Anyway,  I make a new layer from the background  (and/or final layers if I am saving a layered file for some reason) and then I do a curves adjustment layer and set the blend mode to multiply. I then heal the layer below the curves adjustment  (i.e. the copy of the background) - this lets me see the dust much more clearly.  I turn off the curves layer when I need to clone rather than heal or if I'm using the blur tool to deal with very dusty gray clouds (or else it will use the blending mode and mess it up - I don't know why that doesn't happen with the healing tool but it has been this way as long as I can remember). I then delete the curves adjustment and flatten. Clear blue skies are so quick and easy this way but I think I probably overdo it with cloudy skies since it is sometimes hard to tell a dust spot from rounded gray cloud shapes.

 

I love the large Sony files, but dust spotting is sometimes a slow slog, especially with cloud filled skies at dusk or sunset. I shoot a lot of blue hour photos by the sea or over the Hudson River and while the sunsets are great, if there is dust I'm in for a lot of post-processing. I had a mess on my sensor one day last fall when I was shooting Lake Erie lighthouses - I have gorgeous blue hour, sunset, and night photos but the skies are a huge mess. I have been using different primes with my Sony and change lenses often. I also use legacy lenses with adapters and while I've bought additional lens back covers to keep them clean, it still seems to add to the problem. I never had much of an issue with any of my other cameras.  

 

Edited by Marianne
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Hey thanks Marianne. What a nice thing to say.

 

Actually I also had use a curved adjustment layer with a strong s-curve to show up spots -  very similar to you I think 😀. I used to use primes all the time but nowadays I use some high quality zooms mostly which saves changing lenses. I still get dust spots but not so much. I do like the high MP files as well - Nikon for me though. 

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