Ethical Implications of Zoos

[John Morrison]

10 minutes ago, KHA said:

Because you may be gifted that body in the next life. Or perhaps even later in this life, as your body is subject to change in ways and through experiences you might never have imagined when you were young.

 

What... I might change into a warthog? In this life?? Who knew???

[KHA]

Confess your sins to the warthog, not to me, honey.

[John Mitchell]

On 01/09/2019 at 10:04, geogphotos said:

Why visit a zoo? 

 

If I want to see depressed primates I go to the pub.

 

Boom Boom

 

That's pretty funny. I've always wondered why there were so many images taken in pubs on Alamy.

[Starsphinx]

13 hours ago, John Morrison said:

 

Well, I may not know what a particular animal is thinking, as it paces around and around its cage. But that's no justification for keeping animals in captivity...

So you prefer animals dying what are inevitably cruel unpleasant deaths in the wild to the possibility of them being protected and preserved in captivity?  I am not justifying anything because life is not that simple, I am simply trying to point out that you cannot judge all zoos, etc as being the same - they are not.  Like just about everything else "pacing" cannot be assessed on its own from one observation.  Sure in a bad zoo with cramped stimulating quarters it is probably a sign of problems, but pacing does not automatically indicate bad zoo.  That includes the possibility the zoo has recently taken the animal from somewhere and is working to help it (again something I have seen happen - a severely pacing animal with obvious behavioural issues 18 months later is chilled, natural behaviour, and successfully bred because the zoo had taken it in and worked their asses off to help it)

12 hours ago, KHA said:

I've been meaning to acknowledge newer replies, but I haven't had a chance. But I just quickly want to respond to Starsphinx. You make some good points. But ultimately, we're all souls in bodies here, man. Spirits in the material world, as the Police might say. The elemental rule of life is -- don't do anything to any creature's body that you wouldn't want done to your body. Because you may be gifted that body in the next life. Or perhaps even later in this life, as your body is subject to change in ways and through experiences you might never have imagined when you were young. That's the game, man. When you figure it out, you advance one step further around this seemingly endless board.

 

Gotta run. I have a zoo shoot to plan!

Personally there are quite a few things other species need done to their bodies that I would not like in the least.  For example certain felines require pain in order to ovulate and conceive - I will leave you to research the source of the pain.  Far more common are things I would like done to me that other animals absolutely do not want done to them (stroking and cuddling come high on this and animals that dislike it include pet species).
Humans are merely a different species of animal - and different species like and dislike different things.  Caring means finding out what a species does and does not like - not giving them what the human likes and avoiding what the human dislikes.

[domf]

This is not a simple question of is it ethical to take photographs at a zoo, it has another layer complexity; I believe the OP is it ethical for a vegan photographer to take photographs at a zoo. I am of the opinion that it is not unethical nor hypocritical for a vegan photographer to take photographs of animals in a zoo. Taking a photograph of an object, subject, action, or event does not mean that the photographer endorses whatever he or she has photographed, I am against the illegal capturing of whales by Japan for scientific purposes and then the whale meat being sold for human consumption but I had no problem photographing a whale restaurant in Tokyo.

[Starsphinx]

1 hour ago, domf said:

This is not a simple question of is it ethical to take photographs at a zoo, it has another layer complexity; I believe the OP is it ethical for a vegan photographer to take photographs at a zoo. I am of the opinion that it is not unethical nor hypocritical for a vegan photographer to take photographs of animals in a zoo. Taking a photograph of an object, subject, action, or event does not mean that the photographer endorses whatever he or she has photographed, I am against the illegal capturing of whales by Japan for scientific purposes and then the whale meat being sold for human consumption but I had no problem photographing a whale restaurant in Tokyo.

Ethically the photographer is there to document - capture the material as is.
What is done with that material is something else - and if selling the image on stock something the photographer may have very little control over.
If I take photographs of people engaging in illegal behaviour during a protest and those photographs instead of being bought by a newspaper writing a story on the legal acts are bought by an organisation promoting illegal acts am I responsible for promoting illegal acts?

[John Mitchell]

2 hours ago, domf said:

This is not a simple question of is it ethical to take photographs at a zoo, it has another layer complexity; I believe the OP is it ethical for a vegan photographer to take photographs at a zoo. I am of the opinion that it is not unethical nor hypocritical for a vegan photographer to take photographs of animals in a zoo. Taking a photograph of an object, subject, action, or event does not mean that the photographer endorses whatever he or she has photographed, I am against the illegal capturing of whales by Japan for scientific purposes and then the whale meat being sold for human consumption but I had no problem photographing a whale restaurant in Tokyo.

 

Those are good points. BTW, Japan has resumed commercial (not just so-called "scientific") whale-hunting this year. There have been calls to boycott the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo because of it. Japan of course continues to hunt dolphins as well.

[sb photos]

Aside from the current discussion, do you think there is a falling demand for animals, birds, reptiles etc that have been photographed in captivity?

[John Mitchell]

5 minutes ago, sb photos said:

Aside from the current discussion, do you think there is a falling demand for animals, birds, reptiles etc that have been photographed in captivity?

 

I wonder if there ever has been much of a demand. None of mine has ever licensed as stock, but then I don't have very many. 

[NYCat]

Looking at All of Alamy for zoo searches in the last month there are 24 pages. People usually seem to be looking for a specific zoo. I must investigate further since there are 4 zoos here that are easy to get to and I'm not planning more trips to wild places. There is wildness right here.

 

Paulette

[John Mitchell]

1 hour ago, NYCat said:

Looking at All of Alamy for zoo searches in the last month there are 24 pages. People usually seem to be looking for a specific zoo. I must investigate further since there are 4 zoos here that are easy to get to and I'm not planning more trips to wild places. There is wildness right here.

 

Paulette

 

That's right, you're living in the concrete jungle. 😀

 

When I was doing travel writing along with photography, I wrote a few articles for Wildlife Conservation Magazine, which was published by the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) based in NYC. Sadly, the magazine is now defunct. I believe that WCS manages a several NYC zoos -- including the Bronx Zoo -- none of which I've ever visited. They also do a lot of wildlife conservation work worldwide.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by John Mitchell

[NYCat]

2 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

That's right, you're living in the concrete jungle. 😀

 

When I was doing travel writing along with photography, I wrote a few articles for Wildlife Conservation Magazine, which was published by the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS) based in NYC. Sadly, the magazine is now defunct. I believe that WCS manages a several NYC zoos -- including the Bronx Zoo -- none of which I've ever visited. They also do a lot of wildlife conservation work worldwide.

 

 

 

I am a member and can go to the Bronx Zoo, Prospect Park Zoo, Queens Zoo, Central Park Zoo and the New York Aquarium. I actually haven't been to the aquarium since they rebuilt it after superstorm Sandy. Hmmmm..Something fun to do.

 

Paulette

[John Mitchell]

34 minutes ago, NYCat said:

 

I am a member and can go to the Bronx Zoo, Prospect Park Zoo, Queens Zoo, Central Park Zoo and the New York Aquarium. I actually haven't been to the aquarium since they rebuilt it after superstorm Sandy. Hmmmm..Something fun to do.

 

Paulette

 

My point in mentioning WCS was that not all zoos are created equal in that some do use their profits to fund "ethical" wildlife conservation and educational projects. Personally, I don't enjoy seeing most animals in captivity, but I realize that it's not always a black and white issue.

[Inchiquin]

10 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Personally, I don't enjoy seeing most animals in captivity, but I realize that it's not always a black and white issue.

 

 

Unless they're pandas....

 

Alan

[Alex Ramsay]

21 minutes ago, Inchiquin said:

 

Unless they're pandas....

 

Alan

 

or penguins

 

Alex

[aphperspective]

40 minutes ago, Alex Ramsay said:

 

or penguins

 

Alex

Or Zebra

Andy

[John Mitchell]

7 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

 

Unless they're pandas....

 

Alan

 

I've actually never seen pandas in captivity or in the wild. But they are black and white...

 

Grey wolves don't look too happy in captivity, though, along with white polar bears and black panthers.

[Allan Bell]

Just now, John Mitchell said:

I've actually never seen pandas in captivity or in the wild. But they are black and white...

 

Except for the RED panda.

 

Allan

 

[John Mitchell]

1 minute ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Except for the RED panda.

 

Allan

 

 

True, but it's best to steer clear of politics. 😶

[Allan Bell]

Just now, John Mitchell said:

 

True, but it's best to steer clear of politics. 😶

 

 

🤣🤣🤣

 

Allan

 

[MizBrown]

10 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

I've actually never seen pandas in captivity or in the wild. But they are black and white...

 

Grey wolves don't look too happy in captivity, though, along with white polar bears and black panthers.

 

Chimpanzees seem to be prone to being very hostile to being looked at while caged.  I've seen one chimp scoop up water with his lower lip and spit at the onlookers, and read that chimps in the North Carolina Zoo were throwing rocks.

 

On the other hand, the mouflon herd at the Bronx Zoo seemed to be doing fine. 

 

The more intelligent, the more unhappy.  One zookeeper said the great apes tended to be bitter and would try to hurt their keepers.

[John Mitchell]

2 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

The more intelligent, the more unhappy.  One zookeeper said the great apes tended to be bitter and would try to hurt their keepers.

 

I guess that observation jibes well with Ian's comment (see above) about bored primates in pubs. 😀

 

To me, polar bears look the most pathetic in captivity. They pace back and forth and swing their heads from side-to-side as if they don't know what to do with themselves.

[Allan Bell]

5 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

They pace back and forth and swing their heads from side-to-side as if they don't know what to do with themselves.

 

That's me to a tee.

 

Allan

 

[Betty LaRue]

See, that is what distresses me. On one hand, I’m getting to see animals I would never get to see other than stills, television or movies. 

But it seems so many of them show their distress by constant pacing at a fence line. Just look at the worn paths in the earth.

 

I liken it to claustrophobia for a human and I can relate. The few times I’ve been hospitalized, I could barely stand it, except the few times I was so ill I didn’t know much of anything. The minute I got better, I wanted out. Outside. In nature.  

I probably felt a bit like a pacing tiger. I remember the nurses being in a tizzy once because I’d sneaked outside in my robe for a bit of fresh air and reality. My world. I didn’t ask for permission because they would have said not only no, but hell no.

 

I really don’t understand how the bulk of people working at zoos can stand being awash in all that animal stress.

I’m torn. I’ve not been to the Wichita zoo since moving here. I want to see it and I don’t.

Betty

 

[Robz]

Check out "captive" by animal rights photographer Jo-Anne McArthur: https://joannemcarthur.com/projects/photos/captive/

 

This too: https://www.slrlounge.com/prisoners-a-photo-story-showing-the-pain-of-animals-kept-in-a-zoo-in-bangladesh/

Edited September 7, 2019 by Robz