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15 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Not a good idea if you want to fire that someone from one activity (i.e. as an Alamy News contributor) whilst simultaneously keeping them motivated in their other activity (i.e. as an Alamy Stock contributor). Especially when you've also cut their commission rates for non-exclusive images a few weeks earlier.

 

Mark

 

I eat breakfast where my fired part time housekeeper is the cook (working for a friend of mine).  

 

The other side of this is that most of the people complaining don't appear to have sold news images as news. 
 

It might have been more useful if they'd announced that after such and such date, anyone who hadn't sold some percentage of their news submissions would lose their news posting privileges.  What they did with the raise in their percentage of the gross was give us a lead time.  And people got a compromise on that.

 

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1 hour ago, MizBrown said:

 

 

How do you more gently tell someone that his or her services are not wanted at this time without some proof of making news sales elsewhere (the PDF sample sheet)?   Lot of hurt feelings by people who admit that they never sold a news image as news, though some sold as stock later. 

 

Ever fired someone?  Be blunt, be brief, and let both you and the former employee get on with life.  People with news photography priors in other venues can reapply with their sample PDFs; people with breaking news photos can contact Alamy to up load those photographs. 

 

 

 

 

 

We weren't told at all. To stick with your employment analogy, we were locked out.

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1 hour ago, MizBrown said:

 

Ever fired someone?  Be blunt, be brief, and let both you and the former employee get on with life.  People with news photography priors in other venues can reapply with their sample PDFs; people with breaking news photos can contact Alamy to up load those photographs. 

 

Many weren't even told they had been fired. Alamy just changed the locks. 

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1 minute ago, spacecadet said:

We weren't told at all. To stick with your employment analogy, we were locked out.

 

What would you have wanted Alamy to do.  Give us a month's notice?  

 

I was one of those who got locked out, but I understand why Alamy might have wanted to change course with Live News.   Given that people in the arts (and that's part of what we are) tend to be touchy, I'm not sure a month's notice would have been easier.

 

In my twenties, I lived in NYC.  I've seen the bomb wagon go by which might have been a news photos for the city in that day.  I knew the mother of one of the Weather Underground people who blew up a Greenwich Village house.  I came by after a street shooting (not really breaking regional news even). 

 

I think one of the more difficult things to do is get interesting breaking news photos of demonstrations.  The people who've done it have been both good at being where the action is and framing the situation in an arresting way.  My beginning take on this is that the focus has to be on one signature person with other people as context -- the person putting a flower in a rifle barrel during a Vietnam War demonstration, the people buffeted by fire hoses during civil rights demonstrations, the screaming girl over a body at Kent State, Tienanmen Man in front of the tanks, the burning girl in Vietnam.   And somehow more than just a record of a protest or a ceremony. 

 

It's an interesting mix of talents.   If Alamy can find and sell those photographs, there's likely to be a knockon effect for its more generic stock market. 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, MizBrown said:

 

The other side of this is that most of the people complaining don't appear to have sold news images as news.

 

Exactly!!!  It must suck to be locked out of news, but if no sales have been made as news then it's understandable.  It's all well and good taking pics which the contrib THINKS are saleable images, but if picture editors don't use the pics then clearly the photos simply aren't interesting/good/quirky etc enough. 

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1 minute ago, Colblimp said:

Exactly!!!  It must suck to be locked out of news, but if no sales have been made as news then it's understandable.  It's all well and good taking pics which the contrib THINKS are saleable images, but if picture editors don't use the pics then clearly the photos simply aren't interesting/good/quirky etc enough. 

 

The only thing any of us have any real control over is producing better work than the stuff that didn't sell. 

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22 minutes ago, Colblimp said:

Exactly!!!  It must suck to be locked out of news, but if no sales have been made as news then it's understandable.  It's all well and good taking pics which the contrib THINKS are saleable images, but if picture editors don't use the pics then clearly the photos simply aren't interesting/good/quirky etc enough. 

So what if you were a newbie to Alamy or had only been submitting stock until recently but wanted to try news. Do you think you would get past their new selection criteria?

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24 minutes ago, andremichel said:

So what if you were a newbie to Alamy or had only been submitting stock until recently but wanted to try news. Do you think you would get past their new selection criteria?

Who knows?  I'm not saying my stuff is good, if that's what you think, I'm simply stating the bleeding obvious.

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Just now, Colblimp said:

Who knows?  I'm not saying my stuff is good, if that's what you think, I'm simply stating the bleeding obvious.

Your stuff is clearly good enough as it sells. But my point is that you may have failed to make the cut simply by joining Alamy a couple of years later.

 

I expect there are many talented photographers who will never get the chance you got, simply due to this change of policy. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, andremichel said:

Your stuff is clearly good enough as it sells. But my point is that you may have failed to make the cut simply by joining Alamy a couple of years later.

 

I expect there are many talented photographers who will never get the chance you got, simply due to this change of policy. 

 

 

I absolutely agree, you're right, of course. 

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3 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

 

How do you more gently tell someone that his or her services are not wanted at this time without some proof of making news sales elsewhere (the PDF sample sheet)?   Lot of hurt feelings by people who admit that they never sold a news image as news, though some sold as stock later. 

 

Ever fired someone?  Be blunt, be brief, and let both you and the former employee get on with life.  People with news photography priors in other venues can reapply with their sample PDFs; people with breaking news photos can contact Alamy to up load those photographs. 

 

 

 

 

 

2

Uh yes, I have fired people - dismissed them whatever.

As well as being blunt and brief it is a good idea to be honest and accurate.

When I need pictures of apples and Joe has only provided oranges then telling Joe too many oranges we do not need you any more is fine.  Saying the same to Dick who has never once shot an orange, occasionally sends in good apple shots, but mainly shoots elephants for a totally different project is not only a disrespectful and insulting way to treat Dick but is harmful to the business as well as it is likely to lose the elephants that are needed in another area.

There are people who have been fired (or locked out, had the locks changed without notice which is a better analogy all around) who made sales through live news of 3 figures sums.  There are many more who never ever uploaded a weather shot but limited to breaking live news that was local to them.   Now if a shot of a 3 car pile up in worthyshire makes the nationals how is the photographer supposed to know in advance that their shot from dumpshire of a 4 car pile up is not going to?  How are we supposed to tell which of the stabbings in local towns will be of national interest before submitting (and yes I know of stabbings near me that did go national and ones that did not).  I have been the first and only photographer at the scene of an attempted murder getting shots of the victim being transferred to an air ambulance.   

Also, I do not know about the USA but in the UK you cannot be fired without warning except for "gross misconduct" which generally equates to a criminal act or life endangerment.  In cases of simply not doing the job - or doing the job totally wrong, it requires a written warning to be given first (for more minor issues there will be 2 verbal 1 written warnings).  If we were actually paid employees right now Alamy would be breaking news for its behaviour breaking employment terms - remember all those stories of businesses going bust and making everyone redundant by text or just not telling them until they arrived to find their workplace closed - this would be worse.

Finally I will repeat and even put in bold my main point - which is that Alamys cack-handed way of doing this is going to hurt Alamy in the future.  You said and I quote "people with breaking news photos can contact Alamy to up load those photographs. "   My point is Why should anyone with breaking News contact Alamy when they can contact other news services or even the providers direct?   The reason I uploaded news to Alamy was because I did not have to contact them.  If I have to contact someone it is not going to be Alamy.

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Mr West, Mr Fischer,

 

I surmise you have put pressure on Live News to increase it's contribution to the bottom line.

 

Please spare some consideration to the artless way it has been done. I cannot believe you wanted to generate the comments you have seen in this thread.

 

Contributors have been blocked,  without warning, they have been judged against unpublished criteria. A revised criteria is becoming apparent by the content of e-mails being published within this thread, yet the news feed is still full of pictures which are neither live , breaking ,or topical news. This is not a good contributor experience.

 

Please apply some oversight and move this forward.

 

 

James

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Colblimp said:

Really, Alamy?!  What a joke.  😂

 

It's not breaking news, but every day weather, shot in a timely manner is by any test of reasonableness, Live News.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said:

 

It's not breaking news, but every day weather, shot in a timely manner is by any test of reasonableness, Live News.

 

 

It could be classed as breaking news if something big, not forecast, hits.  But I agree, it's news but not breaking.

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On 11/04/2019 at 08:53, Simon said:

How about if you redefine "News pictures" to be "Topical pictures"  ?   The papers need to fill their pages with topical images, a lot of which are seasonal.  It's not really news that the moon and sun are going to rise over St Michaels Mount on a certain day, or that there will be murmation of starlings in the winter around a well known pier, but it's topical and it makes a pleasant relief from the B word.

I went to talk last weekend by Brian Harris, veteran (real) news photographer, ex 'Times', 'Independent' etc. He put it a bit more pithily. "If I see another picture of a f*****g sunset in the Times, I swear I will explode". (His language!)

 

Of course, as has already been noted, Alamy only cares about what sells regularly and obviously doesn't want to clutter itself up with stuff that doesn't so it is having a cull. I certainly don't buy newspapers to see pictures of lambs in springtime or snow in wintertime but presumably a lot do or they wouldn't print them. 

 

Pete Davis

http://www.pete-davis-photography.com

http://peteslandscape.blogspot.com

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I have followed this thread for some time now, i am new on Alamy Live news and it was fun and exciting to post pictures of political events.

I even booked flight tickets from Sweden to London just to take pictures of Brexit-events and send them up to Alamy, crazy isn't it?:)

 

Did i sell anything? No! but it was fun!

 

I am a bit sad that they have now closed the Live news option for us newbies but i do understand that they want to set a level somewhere. 

However it will only be harder for us new ones who want to get into news and sports photography.

 

So what happens now? Start looking for other alternatives? I enjoyed the setup that Alamy Live News had.

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Posted (edited)

Was just in South Bend Indiana today for the announcement by Pete Buttegieg he is officially running for the President of the US.  There were so many people that the fire marshall turned away people shortly after the doors opened as it was already at capacity.  So, in the cold and rain, I along with many others stayed outside where a monitor was set-up.  Before addressing the crowd inside, he and his partner surprisingly came out and addressed the group outside at which time I was right there to get my photos.  Uncanny time/place. 

 

Since my LiveNews access was revoked, those photos of Pete w/partner, the crowd waiting outdoors, the reception of the crowd, etc. will all have to go into a review now before posting which at that point the newest news item will take over the news cycle.  So I submitted to the other places which I don't get as much for live news but will likely sell them.

 

The bottom line is that with photographers around the world capturing fleeting moments in time, a select photographers few cannot be everywhere at one time around the globe.  I lived in Cleveland but drove the 5 hours to South Bend Indiana just as I will be driving to Buffalo later this week for more news stories.  There are pockets of the globe where news is happening and while it may not be of interest to the English curators, it may be of interest to the thousands of publications/websites that cover the news throughout the world and purchase from Alamy.

 

Again, the photos I have of Pete and his partner addressing the crowd today were very timely, very important in the world of US politics, and were captured by myself.  I had the photos captured and sent (not to Alamy) before they were done addressing the main hall inside.  It is what it is but with how fast the news moves nowadays, the photos of Pete and his partner on arguably one of the most important days of his campaign (the official announcement he is running) will not be available on Alamy for a couple days as it is Sunday here in the US as I write this, the photos won't get reviewed until Monday/Tuesday and will be live by Tuesday/Wednesday at which time it is old news.

 

Ok, enough said.  Check my photos in a couple days if you want to see the shots taken at the rally today. I am sure many of use who have been culled from submitting Live News have had or will have similar experiences.  Unfortunately for two years I have submitted live news only to Alamy and didn't bother with the other outlets but will now seek out other avenues since this one has been closed off. 

Edited by MarkK
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As for new news photographers, the bleeding obvious solution to this, if you want to work for Alamy Live News, is to take the pictures, get in touch as quickly as possible with Alamy (phone with Skype and a data plan, or whatever) and see if this is something they want.   Give Alamy enough news photos that sell more often than not, and the newbie will get access.

 

Googling https://www.google.com.ni/search?q=pete+buttigieg+announces+presidential+bid&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCg43DhNHhAhXp1FkKHbO_BGQQ_AUIDygC&biw=2143&bih=1322#imgrc=_ gets pages of results, mostly from the big national media companies.

 

I didn't bother to go to Managua for news because some other Alamy shooters live there and probably can beat me to anything news worthy.   There are even other photographers in Jinotega, not sure if any of them submit to Alamy, and there are travelers who've submitted the big architectural shots of the local cathedral to Alamy.   This is Nicaragua.  The rest of the world is probably even more saturated with decent to excellent part-time and full time photographers.    I'm going to focus on people working, in situations where I can get unique access, and try to take better photos.  And use my upstairs studio for still lifes that aren't necessarily "de Nicaragua."

 

More and more, I think this is about promoting Alamy's brand by first creating a better reputation among news editors and secondary brand promotion by having a lot of memorable Alamy shots show up where they get the most eyeballs.  If media remember seeing Alamy news shots, they're likely to see if Alamy can meet other photographic needs.   If they go to the live news feeds and can't find what they're looking, after several tries, they'll go elsewhere when under time constraints.   Alamy does show up (mostly in the UK media), but some other agencies show up more internationally.

 

A while back, someone commented that it was impossible to beat the wire service guys on the big photo ops because they transmitted their pictures from their cameras seconds after taking them (if warranted).   Going to announced press events are probably going to be very difficult to get a unique emotionally charged photo of the primary event.   The people announcing something are more likely to be emotionally guarded.    The world famous Che Guevara photo was taken by a very experienced Cuban photographer who did catch an emotional moment.    Some of the official White House photographers have done similar work with US presidents, being very familiar with their subjects.  

 

So, what I need to do next for me is look over some of my all time favorite photographs, news or otherwise, and think about how to take better photographs.  Maybe at 71, I'll never take better enough photographs.  Shrug.   Trying is better than not trying.

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29 minutes ago, MizBrown said:

As for new news photographers, the bleeding obvious solution to this, if you want to work for Alamy Live News, is to take the pictures, get in touch as quickly as possible with Alamy (phone with Skype and a data plan, or whatever) and see if this is something they want.   Give Alamy enough news photos that sell more often than not, and the newbie will get access.

 

I read way back on this thread that live news staff go home at 9:30pm. If correct, I'm curious how contributors with withdrawn live news rights that are non UK photographers (time difference issue) or uk photographers phone Alamy for a form to submit breaking news and have their submission checked after 9:30pm? Or in reality is there 24 hour coverage? Breaking news doesn't stop happening after Alamy's staff go home after a hard days work. Anyone had this problem or can comment on the actual hours that the live news staff can be contacted for a quick response? Emails to news@alamy.com likely won't be read for some time, then live news will be old news. 

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2 hours ago, MizBrown said:

So, what I need to do next for me is look over some of my all time favorite photographs, news or otherwise, and think about how to take better photographs.  Maybe at 71, I'll never take better enough photographs.  Shrug.   Trying is better than not trying.

 

Have you come across the book: Pictures On A Page: Photojournalism,Graphics and Picture Editing by Harold Evans. First published in 1978, updated in 1997. 

 

"For the general reader it is a classic collection of news photographs fascinating in their own right. For the professional and the student it remains an unrivalled study of photo-journalism, a complete analysis of how photographs are taken, selected and edited for newspapers and magazines."

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1 hour ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

Have you come across the book: Pictures On A Page: Photojournalism,Graphics and Picture Editing by Harold Evans. First published in 1978, updated in 1997. 

 

"For the general reader it is a classic collection of news photographs fascinating in their own right. For the professional and the student it remains an unrivalled study of photo-journalism, a complete analysis of how photographs are taken, selected and edited for newspapers and magazines."

I have this work and it is a classic.  Although, initially, it may seem dated, it is an outstanding manual of the craft of photojournalism.  

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21 hours ago, Dyn Llun said:

I went to talk last weekend by Brian Harris, veteran (real) news photographer, ex 'Times', 'Independent' etc. He put it a bit more pithily. "If I see another picture of a f*****g sunset in the Times, I swear I will explode". (His language!)

 

Of course, as has already been noted, Alamy only cares about what sells regularly and obviously doesn't want to clutter itself up with stuff that doesn't so it is having a cull. I certainly don't buy newspapers to see pictures of lambs in springtime or snow in wintertime but presumably a lot do or they wouldn't print them. 

 

Pete Davis

http://www.pete-davis-photography.com

http://peteslandscape.blogspot.com

 

Each to their own.  I enjoy the photos that the Times includes as the News in Pictures etc,  they are always well composed, or dramatic, and visually appealing.

 

My personal bête noire would be those clearly model posed agency images showing impossibly attractive people in unrealistically clean and tidy surroundings, add to that the boring heads of politicians etc yawn snooze....  Not sure that they add anything to my enjoyment of the paper,  but people have to make a living.

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30 minutes ago, Bryan said:

My personal bête noire would be those clearly model posed agency images showing impossibly attractive people in unrealistically clean and tidy surroundings

Those pics drive me mad - so false and yet they keep being used.  Any stock pics I set up are purposely shot to look real.

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1 hour ago, Bryan said:

 

Each to their own.  I enjoy the photos that the Times includes as the News in Pictures etc,  they are always well composed, or dramatic, and visually appealing.

 

My personal bête noire would be those clearly model posed agency images showing impossibly attractive people in unrealistically clean and tidy surroundings, add to that the boring heads of politicians etc yawn snooze....  Not sure that they add anything to my enjoyment of the paper,  but people have to make a living.

Sorry about the boring heads of politicians but they sell and sell and sell....

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4 hours ago, sb photos said:

Breaking news doesn't stop happening after Alamy's staff go home after a hard days work.

 

 

you don't have to be in the office to be at work....

 

km

 

 

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