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I would not make it so contributors had to re-upload to stock but rather have it so that once the 2 or 5 or 10 days is up the images went automatically into QC then had to be recaptioned and tagged - but with the provisos on noise etc that can come from photos being taken for news in less than ideal conditions.
Then any images rejected by QC from news would have the same impact on ranking - possibly I would increase the ranking possibilities from 3 stars to five to reflect this.  This would (hopefully) mean that people considering uploading to news will look at their images in the same way as stock - so they would be properly focused exposed etc.

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2 minutes ago, Joseph Clemson said:

Just received an e-mail declining my application to rejoin Live News submissions. They are happy for me to submit 'Breaking News' on a per-occasion basis, filling in a form each time. I don't think I'll be doing that and am disappointed in Alamy for not opening any pathway to soft live news for us mere mortals.

 

The email ends 'We also recommend you upload more frequently so that we can gage '

 

Gauge what, precisely???

Firstly you being refused is daft.

Secondly how the hell are you supposed to upload more frequently if you are not allowed to upload except on a case by case basis?  Do they seriously expect you to go around filling out a form several times a month to see if they will accept things so they can then reconsider whether you should be allowed to upload without filling a form in?  

 

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Just now, Starsphinx said:

Firstly you being refused is daft.

Secondly how the hell are you supposed to upload more frequently if you are not allowed to upload except on a case by case basis?  Do they seriously expect you to go around filling out a form several times a month to see if they will accept things so they can then reconsider whether you should be allowed to upload without filling a form in?  

 

 

I think they mean upload more stock generally, though it is not entirely clear. I can't really devote more time and effort to uploading a lot more Alamy stock as that would impinge on my video work which brings in more actual cash. Not to mention that returns per image at Alamy are declining, for me at least, and there is less incentive to upload more here. (But that is an argument for another thread....)

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6 minutes ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

I think they mean upload more stock generally, though it is not entirely clear. I can't really devote more time and effort to uploading a lot more Alamy stock as that would impinge on my video work which brings in more actual cash. Not to mention that returns per image at Alamy are declining, for me at least, and there is less incentive to upload more here. (But that is an argument for another thread....)

Well my respect to you sir - and I still think they are being daft.

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Posted (edited)

Many folk have stated that their submissions rarely sell as news but sell later as stock, I would assume therefore that Alamy may miss out on many of those sales too, because how many of us will go to these events if the chance of selling to live news isn't there?

Edited by Sultanpepa
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3 hours ago, Joseph Clemson said:

Just received an e-mail declining my application to rejoin Live News submissions. They are happy for me to submit 'Breaking News' on a per-occasion basis, filling in a form each time. I don't think I'll be doing that and am disappointed in Alamy for not opening any pathway to soft live news for us mere mortals.

 

The email ends 'We also recommend you upload more frequently so that we can gage '

 

Gauge what, precisely???

 

Can you quote yourself...?  Just received another email from Alamy. My Live News upload privilage is still a big NO, but they've removed the half-baked comment about recommending I upload more frequently. 

 

II fired in my application for Live News uploading privileges very quickly after being kicked out, so it may be that other contributors will hear from them soon as they work through their self-created backlog of applications.

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17 minutes ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

Can you quote yourself...?  Just received another email from Alamy. My Live News upload privilage is still a big NO, but they've removed the half-baked comment about recommending I upload more frequently. 

 

II fired in my application for Live News uploading privileges very quickly after being kicked out, so it may be that other contributors will hear from them soon as they work through their self-created backlog of applications.

I think the most exasperating thing is they have a forum full of contributors who want to back them and support them - yet they keep mishandling things in such a crappy way said contributors are forced to question their competence.

 

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6 hours ago, RedSnapper said:

Just out of interest...

 

If Alamy had announced, say, that "in two weeks time we will be removing the LiveNews upload facilty from any contributor  who hasn't made X  [insert your own value here] LiveNews sales in the past 12 months",  how exactly would that have made any difference?

 

km

"I got up Wednesday morning with the idea to shoot the super-bloom  at the Carrizo plain Wednesday and Thursday morning,  then get back in time to upload to live news from home Thursday lunchtime, it's about a 400 mile round trip.  In my mind it wasn't breaking news that needed to be uploaded within an hour but I thought that the images might work for some Sunday newspaper/site somewhere in the world this weekend. Well at 1.30 am as I slept like a baby in my truck at the top of the Caliente mountain ridge the e-mail of doom arrived and kind of put an end to that idea. I ended up staying longer but still got home for 4pm. Here are the photos I had planned to send to live news that will now get uploaded sometime this weekend for QC to check Monday at the earliest perhaps go live Tuesday if Im lucky . Not the end of the world but the wildflowers will only last another week or 2 at the most"

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Posted (edited)

I think a lot of people are thinking because Alamy dumped 75%??? of their news team things are going to get better. Well that remains to be seen, perhaps out elite news guys don't get the job done?  perhaps it was more to do with the news sales team than the photographers? I think our news team have a heavy burden to carry. The future of Alamy rests on their shoulders! We wish them luck and will watch from the sidelines as they deliver the worlds news. I would like to see this elite group of news guys get paid a bit more so its worth them doing it.

 

 

PS As long as it doesn't come from my 50%.

 

 

Have a great weekend everyone

 

Cheers and gone

 Shergar

 

 

 

 

Edited by Shergar
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, RedSnapper said:

Just out of interest...

 

If Alamy had announced, say, that "in two weeks time we will be removing the LiveNews upload facilty from any contributor  who hasn't made X  [insert your own value here] LiveNews sales in the past 12 months",  how exactly would that have made any difference?

 

km

Actually on the "other forum" you did give 48 hours prior warning that this was about to happen. I'm intrigued -how come you were aware so early? And why not post here and alert your fellow live news contributors?

Edited by ReeRay
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4 minutes ago, ReeRay said:

Actually on the "other forum" you did give 48 hours prior warning that this was about to happen. I'm intrigued -how come you were aware so early? And why not post here?

Ohhhhoooo this sounds like breaking news!

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Starsphinxm commented on my suggestion that instead of resubmitting a live news photos as stock just to move it into standard QC. My thought was that sometimes a good live news photo might not be up to the quality that you would want for stock. If it is up to stock quality maybe even submitting at the same time with standard stock keywords etc. could work.

Not having it automaticly go into stock might prevent any misuse of Live News as a way of bypassing QC.

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2 minutes ago, Charles Stirling said:

Starsphinxm commented on my suggestion that instead of resubmitting a live news photos as stock just to move it into standard QC. My thought was that sometimes a good live news photo might not be up to the quality that you would want for stock. If it is up to stock quality maybe even submitting at the same time with standard stock keywords etc. could work.

Not having it automaticly go into stock might prevent any misuse of Live News as a way of bypassing QC.

Or give reviewers the option of "acceptable live news not fit for stock" on images submitted that way so those do not affect rankings but bad photos of ordinary subjects do

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The email I have received confirming my rejection after re-applying for Live News gives no indication whatsoever that Alamy are considering any other options. I fear  all the creative thinking in this thread on how to re-shape Live News is like the seed which fell on stony ground ☹️.

 

Tomorrow I am going to watch a whole load of steam excursions whizzing up and down the West Coast Main Line and areas round about. I'd love to upload some topical news pics but, hey-ho. I'll try not to be too jealous of those shooters who have the opportunity to get their pics in The Times (their picture editor likes steam trains).

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I'm watching a current "soft news" story with interest. The Flying Scotsman, beloved of newspapers, today travelled from Dorset through Hampshire and Surrey to its next assignment. Despite a decision some time ago not to announce such trips - understandably, in order to prevent potentially dangerous trespass on the line - thousands turned out along the route to watch as she steamed past.

 

There are no images of the journey on Live News. I've submitted a few as stock - available on Tuesday at the earliest.

 

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that at least one of the nationals will carry a picture as will a number of local publications en route (though probably sourced FOC), TV too.

 

As the lawyers say "cui bono" certainly neither Alamy ot their contributors.

 

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5 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

Or give reviewers the option of "acceptable live news not fit for stock" on images submitted that way so those do not affect rankings but bad photos of ordinary subjects do

 

Why? They want Live News that is going to sell as News. Then it goes into Stock with the same quality warnings. But what we don't need is a get out for contributors who submit Stock via Live News to bypass QC. I saw one portfolio which was almost all submitted as 'Live News' but the vast majority of images were not News and the general quality was very poor, to put it mildly. Clearly someone gaming the system.

 

Just Keep it simple rather than making it complicated so that you can argue about it.

 

 

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7 hours ago, RedSnapper said:

Just out of interest...

 

If Alamy had announced, say, that "in two weeks time we will be removing the LiveNews upload facilty from any contributor  who hasn't made X  [insert your own value here] LiveNews sales in the past 12 months",  how exactly would that have made any difference?

 

km

Of course it would have made a difference, we could all see the actual reasoning behind it and therefore may have thought, "ok they are right, I'll have to up my game, or assess what I do".

 

Whereas now, it's comes across as a ham fisted way of dealing with people who give them their living, obviously we all aren't giving as much as you, but in life, if you treat people with respect or give a good reason, before possibly upsetting them, then bad news is easier to take.

 

Most people weren't happy with the 20% decrease in commission from 50% down to 40%, but Alamy did give warning & then changed how they I implemented the decrease.

 

That's all they needed to do really, provide a reason and whilst everybody might not agree with being told that reason, most people can understand a genuine business decision.

 

I guess you probably know more about it and may have been consulted? As some have suggested, some of the Live News Feed was a bit pathetic as is some of the stock, so personally, I can also understand if the Alamy News Team were overwhelmed by a large amount of rubbish, or daft questions like we see on here, but as has been said, Alamy has been trying to grow, by inviting anyone via social media to join them, so some of that is their own fault, but if they have realised it isn't such a good idea, then that is also their prerogative, but explaining it to people who like yourself have invested lots of time and effort into  contributing, isn't a good idea for many of us.

 

 

Chris

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Clearly someone gaming the system.

 I see, because "someone" is gaming the system, everyone else has to pay the penalty.

 

Like your logic. I went to a school like that - 60 years ago!

Edited by Russell
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42 minutes ago, Shergar said:

Ohhhhoooo this sounds like breaking news!

Intriguing....

 

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Russell said:

I'm watching a current "soft news" story with interest. The Flying Scotsman, beloved of newspapers, today travelled from Dorset through Hampshire and Surrey to its next assignment. Despite a decision some time ago not to announce such trips - understandably, in order to prevent potentially dangerous trespass on the line - thousands turned out along the route to watch as she steamed past.

 

There are no images of the journey on Live News. I've submitted a few as stock - available on Tuesday at the earliest.

 

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that at least one of the nationals will carry a picture as will a number of local publications en route (though probably sourced FOC), TV too.

 

As the lawyers say "cui bono" certainly neither Alamy ot their contributors.

 

 

There's a lot of photographers taking images of the Flying Scotsman and competition is fierce.

 

I had some success with Live News images around the time that the Flying Scotsman made its inaugural steam tour after its restoration - 25 Feb 2016.

 

By a long way, my highest $$$ seller on Alamy from that shoot was this one - make of that what you will. Although I have also sold pictures of Flying Scotsman itself from that time, both as news and stock, and also elsewhere (mainly POD).

 

Offord Cluny, Cambridgeshire, UK. 25th February, 2016. Train enthusiasts wait for the Flying Scotsman, but not always Stock Photo

 

Edited by Keith Douglas

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Joseph Clemson said:

The email I have received confirming my rejection after re-applying for Live News gives no indication whatsoever that Alamy are considering any other options. I fear  all the creative thinking in this thread on how to re-shape Live News is like the seed which fell on stony ground ☹️.

 

Tomorrow I am going to watch a whole load of steam excursions whizzing up and down the West Coast Main Line and areas round about. I'd love to upload some topical news pics but, hey-ho. I'll try not to be too jealous of those shooters who have the opportunity to get their pics in The Times (their picture editor likes steam trains).

For what its worth in my investigations of a news agency I have been recommended too several times by different people it seems they are happy to have "citizen journalists" with accounts alongside pros and I believe they will do take things like steam trains.  They are to be found in the SouthWest of the country but cover nationwide.

Edited by Starsphinx

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6 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

For what its worth in my investigations of a news agency I have been recommended too several times by different people it seems they are happy to have "citizen journalists" with accounts alongside pros and I believe they will do take things like steam trains.  They are to be found in the SouthWest of the country but cover nationwide.

 

Yes, the grass is always greener, and the other agency is far more accommodating.

 

Back to the real world. I had seen that local professional photographers, who I had stood next to taking shots had been successful with another agency whereas my photos with Alamy didn't get taken. Surely my images were as good as theirs? A couple of weeks later I had a sunrise news story that I submitted to this other agency as a bit of a trial, and also to Alamy. The other agency, and Alamy were both keen. The image appeared in the National Press the next day via both agencies. They were good News images - the sales say that, not me.

A few months later I had another, but admittedly less compelling news story. I submitted it to the other agency. Heard nothing, not even an acknowledgement.

Yes, any agency will bite your hand off if you are offering them images that will make them money. But the idea that they're going to be any different to Alamy for anything less is fantasy.

 

However, and this comes back to the point I have made before, the important thing is to establish a track record and a history of delivery of news stories that will sell on a regular basis. That's what Alamy appear to be looking for and that's what any agency based in the South West, North East or anywhere else will be looking for too.

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4 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

Yes, the grass is always greener, and the other agency is far more accommodating.

 

Back to the real world. I had seen that local professional photographers, who I had stood next to taking shots had been successful with another agency whereas my photos with Alamy didn't get taken. Surely my images were as good as theirs? A couple of weeks later I had a sunrise news story that I submitted to this other agency as a bit of a trial, and also to Alamy. The other agency, and Alamy were both keen. The image appeared in the National Press the next day via both agencies. They were good News images - the sales say that, not me.

A few months later I had another, but admittedly less compelling news story. I submitted it to the other agency. Heard nothing, not even an acknowledgement.

Yes, any agency will bite your hand off if you are offering them images that will make them money. But the idea that they're going to be any different to Alamy for anything less is fantasy.

 

However, and this comes back to the point I have made before, the important thing is to establish a track record and a history of delivery of news stories that will sell on a regular basis. That's what Alamy appear to be looking for and that's what any agency based in the South West, North East or anywhere else will be looking for too.

Oh, it is less that I expect them to make sell more or get higher prices or whatever because I don't - that as you say depends on the quality of the shots.  What I do believe they offer which I want is an open door people can upload to as and when.  Basically, like Live News was.  If that is the case - that people can apply to get access that then does not depend on them making a certain number of uploads or whatever then for some it will make more sense than here.  The fact that they are a totally different agency and specifically news orientated means they will not be facing the issues of Alamy Live news.  

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There's a lot of photographers taking images of the Flying Scotsman and competition is fierce

 

So what? As with "gaming the system" you are again missing the point.

 

A few of those photographers would have submitted to Live News. As it is they cannot supply their customers with images to cover this story should they be required as they don't have any.

 

Alamy loses both revenue and reputation, their contributors lose a revenue opportunity. I'll translate - who benefits?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I was annoyed to receive it since when they first started with reportage and then later with Live News, I was invited to submit - I even initially had to set up a second account so I had access (required by Alamy), that's how long ago it was.

 

The Live New team have been great to deal with over the years and even helped me get a press pass to an event in Connecticut where I didn't have contacts (in most other cases I was shooting for an editorial client or didn't need a press pass). Honestly I've done better licensing directly, even to small local papers, which may be due in large part to the fact that I'm in the US. A lot of my shots have sold as secondary editorial, but usually those that sold at the time of the event or disaster (fires, floods, hurricanes, snowstorms, political events) were due to my direct contacts. Still, I liked the idea of uploading to Live News to have the chance of going beyond my contacts. 

 

Of late, I have been guilty of submitting "Photo of the Day" type shots from my iPhone via S/Alamy Live News (and one just appeared in the "Have you Found Any Sales?" thread in March), so they are shots that I believe would have made the cut as stock anyway - and S/Alamy Live News is still picky about what they take since it's an edited collection. I don't know if that route is still open, although after reading more of the discussion, it may well be. 

 

I never shot that much hard news, mostly more lifestyle soft news stuff, and I haven't done any editorial photography assignment work this past year, so I'm not really sure if I'll bother applying, although given how many storms of the century I've lived through in the past 10 years, it would probably be a good idea to apply before hurricane season begins, since that is the kind of US weather that makes news in the UK. I live near the Clintons and New York's governor, and have taken photos of them for local magazines many times, but they are not on the top of the UK press' list at the moment. If I get back into doing more assignments that might have a wider range, I guess I could apply.  I probably would not have uploaded several of my shots that are still selling year later, if it wasn't for Live News, 

 

Disappointed because the Live New team have always seemed so responsive and on top of things, but I'm guessing they are not the ones who made this decision.

 

Edited by Marianne
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