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20 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

That is my point - many of us are not news photographers - but we are photographers and sometimes we are in the right place at the right time (and there is no actual news photographer).   What should we do with the images we get if we are in the right place at the right time?  Just like Joe Bloggs, we could contact editors directly (many if not all national newspapers have well visible "contact us with a story" information ) or, until last week, we could work with an agency we were familiar with and trusted - we could come in and send news images to Alamy.  For many ordinary stock photographers that is going to be the first thing that comes into their mind - I can send these to where I already sell.  Not only have Alamy removed that option but they have done so in a way that has rubbed people the wrong way and resulted in them looking to see if there are other options besides contacting editors direct - and the bad news for Alamy is there are indeed other options.

 

 

I posted this earlier in the thread, but you may have missed it.

 

I started [with Live News] on 6 April 2014. I was taking some photos of a friend running in the Sheffield Half Marathon, when things went badly wrong for the organisers. I think I was the only photographer who caught the action but I was just submitting Stock to Alamy at the time. I realised that the images were newsworthy, so I dashed back to my friends house and contacted Alamy. They set me up with News Access there and then (this was a Sunday afternoon), helped me with the captioning, and I uploaded the images and they appeared in the National Press the next day.

 

Sheffield Half Marathon Tear Sheet

 

It's not difficult really. If you've got a news story, get in touch with Alamy.

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1 hour ago, Colblimp said:

I only have around 50 in 12 months.  I think it's very good.

50 is very good. I have around 40 within the last 12 months. Lots of others that were used immediately after the 2 day live news period.

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57 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

I posted this earlier in the thread, but you may have missed it.

 

I started [with Live News] on 6 April 2014. I was taking some photos of a friend running in the Sheffield Half Marathon, when things went badly wrong for the organisers. I think I was the only photographer who caught the action but I was just submitting Stock to Alamy at the time. I realised that the images were newsworthy, so I dashed back to my friends house and contacted Alamy. They set me up with News Access there and then (this was a Sunday afternoon), helped me with the captioning, and I uploaded the images and they appeared in the National Press the next day.

 

Sheffield Half Marathon Tear Sheet

 

It's not difficult really. If you've got a news story, get in touch with Alamy.

Or if I have a news story get in touch with a national editor direct - it will take the same amount of time and result in more money.

More to the point when I have "interest" stories (say an incident involving white powder from a  package burning someones finger within months of Novichok and only 30 odd miles away) which may or may not be national news (at that point we could not say) previously I could upload to Alamy and they could give editors a heads up in case it developed - now I have to phone someone to sort out access and probably have to keep answering the phone to make updates when I should be taking pictures or trying to stay on top of what is going on.    Or when I am at an event for my own enjoyment which national news covers and picks up incidentals like mine despite the pros being there (say summer solstice at Stonehenge).  Previously I uploaded as national news and editors could see my incidentals immediately - now that stuff has to go as general stock.  

Of course, I could reapply to Alamy - but if I have to reapply I am going to look and see what other places are in a similar market and what they pay and how successful they are at selling live news images and I might just decide to apply somewhere else.  Multiply me by the many photographers here with similar shooting schedules who have not bothered looking elsewhere before because they did not have to and that is quite a lot of baby going out with the bathwater.

 

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7 hours ago, Colblimp said:

86 sales in 17 months?  Oh my, that's good........
I only have around 50 in 12 months. 

 

That's about the same ....5 a month v 4 a month

 

km

 

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I'm not seeing it. Where's the improvement in live news? Looking at the feed I can see images on it that could have been supplied by any one of us on alamy, even those who have never supplied to news before. While there's a number of us who have been culled there are agencies supplying images which we're all capable of. Where's the fairness? I know I'm speaking on behalf of a large number of unhappy people when I ask Alamy to reconsider this situation. It's farcical.

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15 minutes ago, Sultanpepa said:

Where's the improvement in live news?

 

Certainly the UK Weather shots seem now to be restricted to 4 or 5 different locations in the UK, and two in particular of course. When, according to conditions, that means uploading "another wet day in...", "cold and miserable in..." then it does make you wonder if widening the scope might of benefit. My examples are fictitious, but only just. 

 

The idea mooted by myself and others of separating out soft news still seems sensible.

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On 09/04/2019 at 16:57, Alamy said:

 

There's a backlog of applications at the moment so response times are longer than usual. Everyone will get a reply. 

 

Apologies for the delays.

 

Alamy

Thankyou ALAMY, it's much appreciated.

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7 hours ago, Sally said:

50 is very good. I have around 40 within the last 12 months. Lots of others that were used immediately after the 2 day live news period.

You think?  I've had a lot of news sales sell after the fact - one image was used twice in the last three days in the Irish Sun!  I love repeat sellers!

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I would like to push this experience in a positive direction.

 

On the The Forum board in 2018 Ian Davidson suggested a separate Live News Forum.  I feel there is a strong case for such a Forum.

 

My case is  this:-

 

The culling of news contributors came about because of the blurring of Stock and News submissions. News and stock photography are individual disiplines,

so a separation of the discussion will reinforce the separate nature of Stock and Live News photography.

 

Clearly the wish to do news photography is popular but the route to competence is unclear.  Many of our national press photographers came up through the ranks of their local paper;  this route is in decline. Alamy has a good reputation for supporting students.  Alamy is neither a college or charity, it does not have to invest reources.  Alamy does however  have an active photographic community who are generous of spirit and answer the most basic of questions with goodnature.

 

A place to asks questions promotes openess and provides clarity.  With clarity expectations can be set, in the past expectations on both sides have been disparate.

 

 

James

 

PS I am still miffed!

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said:

 

I would like to push this experience in a positive direction.

 

On the The Forum board in 2018 Ian Davidson suggested a separate Live News Forum.  I feel there is a strong case for such a Forum.

 

My case is  this:-

 

The culling of news contributors came about because of the blurring of Stock and News submissions. News and stock photography are individual disiplines,

so a separation of the discussion will reinforce the separate nature of Stock and Live News photography.

 

Clearly the wish to do news photography is popular but the route to competence is unclear.  Many of our national press photographers came up through the ranks of their local paper;  this route is in decline. Alamy has a good reputation for supporting students.  Alamy is neither a college or charity, it does not have to invest reources.  Alamy does however  have an active photographic community who are generous of spirit and answer the most basic of questions with goodnature.

 

A place to asks questions promotes openess and provides clarity.  With clarity expectations can be set, in the past expectations on both sides have been disparate.

 

 

James

 

PS I am still miffed!

 

 

 

I am not seeing much about the route to competence I am seeing people who occasionally in the course of their normal activities come across full on newsworthy stuff and who are rather peeved at having had the place they would have sent it denied to them.  I am not a news photographer - nor would I want to focus on that.  However, due to the things I do do, I actually come across actual news more frequently than Joe Public - say 5 or 6 times a year.  Now I am (I believe) competent with a camera, I read and understood the stuff on captioning headlining etc and complied with Alamys requirements.  The fact that I did not and do not chase stories and send in multiple news stuff day in day out does not detract from what I did send in and does not detract from what I will take in future.  There are numerous others in similar situations - who get stuff a few times a year and want to be able to do something with it, who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and who have been dropped without so much as a bye the bye.   I do not see anyone arguing about separating news and stock or adding in a soft news area I see people arguing about not being given any notice or warning and that the way the decisions on who to drop appear to have been made is far from the best way to make that decision.

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Posted (edited)

When I looked at Colblimp's portfolio request a few weeks ago  the first thing I thought was "it looked cold and wet" and I remember thinking I hope they pay him well for shooting that stuff. What is the average price for live news images in the UK ?

 

 

Cheers and gone

 

Shergar.

Edited by Shergar

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18 minutes ago, Shergar said:

When I looked at Colblimp's portfolio request a few weeks ago  the first thing I thought was "it looked cold and wet" and I remember thinking I hope they pay him well for shooting that stuff. What is the average price for live news images in the UK ?

 

 

Cheers and gone

 

Shergar.

I live in Ireland - it's always cold and wet lol!  I regularly get soaked shooting wet weather pics, but it's worth it when I make sales.  As for prices, it varies from $ to $$$, dependent on the pic, the deal, the discount, etc, etc...

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

I am not seeing much about the route to competence I am seeing people who occasionally in the course of their normal activities come across full on newsworthy stuff and who are rather peeved at having had the place they would have sent it denied to them.  I am not a news photographer - nor would I want to focus on that.  However, due to the things I do do, I actually come across actual news more frequently than Joe Public - say 5 or 6 times a year.  Now I am (I believe) competent with a camera, I read and understood the stuff on captioning headlining etc and complied with Alamys requirements.  The fact that I did not and do not chase stories and send in multiple news stuff day in day out does not detract from what I did send in and does not detract from what I will take in future.  There are numerous others in similar situations - who get stuff a few times a year and want to be able to do something with it, who have done absolutely nothing wrong, and who have been dropped without so much as a bye the bye.   I do not see anyone arguing about separating news and stock or adding in a soft news area I see people arguing about not being given any notice or warning and that the way the decisions on who to drop appear to have been made is far from the best way to make that decision.

 

It's not about sending in News stuff day after day (the input). It's about making regular sales of News stuff as News (the output), not Stock. From a business perspective the output seems to me to be the most relevant measure to use. That appears to be what Alamy has done.

 

Did your News stuff sell as News?

Edited by Keith Douglas
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1 minute ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

It's not about sending in News stuff day after day. It's about making regular sales of News stuff as News, not Stock. Did your News stuff sell as News?

No and it did not sell as stock either.
 

I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not.   That they did not sell does not mean they were not saleable - at most of them, I was the only remotely professional photographer.  I even ended up with an attempted murder less than a mile away with shots of the air ambulance taking off.  Now sometimes small local incidents like that are covered by the nationals sometimes they are not.  They absolutely are not stock photos (and yes were up within an hour of the heli taking off).  Do you want to tell me they are not suitable for news?  Do you want to suggest if that happens again I should not bother because its not news?  

If your suggestion is I apply to get the access back my point is that if I have to apply here for access I might as well apply to another place I have been recommended to more than once and which I have not bothered with because I did not want the hassle of applying.  Which means Alamy loses.

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1 minute ago, Starsphinx said:

No and it did not sell as stock either.
 

I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not.   That they did not sell does not mean they were not saleable - at most of them, I was the only remotely professional photographer.  I even ended up with an attempted murder less than a mile away with shots of the air ambulance taking off.  Now sometimes small local incidents like that are covered by the nationals sometimes they are not.  They absolutely are not stock photos (and yes were up within an hour of the heli taking off).  Do you want to tell me they are not suitable for news?  Do you want to suggest if that happens again I should not bother because its not news?  

If your suggestion is I apply to get the access back my point is that if I have to apply here for access I might as well apply to another place I have been recommended to more than once and which I have not bothered with because I did not want the hassle of applying.  Which means Alamy loses.

 

If your News images haven't sold in the past then I'm not sure how Alamy loses if you decide to submit elsewhere? 

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22 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not. 

 

 

erm, yes they are

 

km

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16 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

If your News images haven't sold in the past then I'm not sure how Alamy loses if you decide to submit elsewhere? 

As I said them not having sold does not mean they are/were not saleable.

Is attempted murder newsworthy?
Is a fire in a historic pub saleable?
Is a chemical incident close to a national story on chemical terrorism saleable?

Are you suggesting that I do not bother submitting such anywhere?  

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59 minutes ago, Colblimp said:

I live in Ireland - it's always cold and wet lol!  I regularly get soaked shooting wet weather pics, but it's worth it when I make sales.  As for prices, it varies from $ to $$$, dependent on the pic, the deal, the discount, etc, etc...

Our prevailing wind is mainly from the West straight off the Atlantic. All that evaporated water comes down on us here in Ireland. Hence good grass so good race horses and good cows, sun tan not so good.😂 

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37 minutes ago, Keith Douglas said:

 

If your News images haven't sold in the past then I'm not sure how Alamy loses if you decide to submit elsewhere? 

If say tomorrow you happen to be the only photographer to snap a plane crash or be in the thick of it during a Brexit riot, then of course alamy loses if you have to send your exclusive pics to someone else, regardless of your past track record.

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1 hour ago, Starsphinx said:

I am not about to start uploading chemical incidents/fires/RTCs etc as stock - they are not.   That they did not sell does not mean they were not saleable

Well if they didn't sell it means they weren't saleable!

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I have also been rejected from live news uploads without any warning. Is it now just for the more experienced photographers, we all have to start somewhere.

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Posted (edited)

A quick review from a general point of view:

Case 1: Photographers (A) who only shoot news.
Case 2: Photographers (B) who shoot most news and occasionally stock.
Case 3: Photographers (C) who shoot news and stock by 50/50.
Case 4: Photographers (D) who shoot most stock and occasionally news.

 

In a safe position (As normal):
(A) and maybe (B): main sales on live news and "regular" on stock.


Uncertain position (Rejected):
(B), (C) and (D), always focusing on "news images", assuming they sell occasionally as news images, or just as stock images.

Independent of how many togs were revoked, will (B,C,D) shoot "newsworthy" images to upload as stock? These "newsworthy" images must pass technical QC, with the risk of images coming from less favorable shoot environments and unfavorable timing.
If the doors are closed in this way, there is no possibility of any sale.
IMHO

 

Andre

 

I am not discussing whether or not news images sells quantity via Alamy implies that are photojournalistic work or not, because maybe it can be sold through other sources, obviously, depending on several factors (Geography, etc.), better for another topic.

Edited by AM Chang

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Starsphinx said:

As I said them not having sold does not mean they are/were not saleable.

Is attempted murder newsworthy?
Is a fire in a historic pub saleable?
Is a chemical incident close to a national story on chemical terrorism saleable?

Are you suggesting that I do not bother submitting such anywhere?  

 

What you're saying is that these are saleable subjects, and I would agree. But your images of those subjects didn't sell. What conclusion can we draw from that? 

 

Alamy are measuring a contributors News sales, not how many images they submit, to determine whether they should have free access to Live News. If you have a newsworthy story you can submit images to Alamy or any other agency and they will evaluate whether your images illustrate the story and are worth submitting to News outlets. A professional News agency needs to be sending out only the quality work that meets the Client's brief and has a chance of being used, not everything that they receive.

 

 

 

Edited by Keith Douglas
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The problem is there are no jobs left for a photographer only opportunity's and this is now one less opportunity . 

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As one who has also been cut off from submitting to Live News, I wanted to add to the discussion.  First, I submitted to Live News sparingly.  Second, the majority of my photos are of events thus cutting off the Live News avenue is requiring me to seek other avenues.  Third, the newspaper industry in the US is going through many changes as it lays off staff and turns to stringers.  In my hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, USA, the main paper just let go the majority of its journalists last week.  Isn't this an opportunity for agencies such as Alamy to step-in and let them know there are locals on the ground able to cover Live News stories.  Unfortunately I am very much under the impression that UK/Euro news is what is relevant and of interest to the News Desk personnel.

 

To give an idea of Live News photo ops that I have in the coming two weeks, here are the events I will be attending but not submitting as Live News but instead as stock.  As the events are US specific I again see why Alamy has made it clear to me (even in a personal email) that these events in the US are of no interest to them.

 

On Saturday and Sunday I will be in South Bend, Indiana to cover the Sunday announcement by Pete Buttigieg.  It is assumed the 37 year old mayor of South Bend is going to announce he will be running for president.  Yes this is US news but as is clear from the past couple years, the election of a US president impacts the world just as Brexit impacts the world.  Following that I am heading to Lordstown, Ohio where the GM factory was closed and where Bernie Sanders, another Presidential Candidate, will be speaking.  The closing of the GM plant represents many culturally specific issues and is extremely important to Ohio voters which in-turn is important to US voters as Ohio tends to be a swing state (albeit this time around it looks like that may be changing).  That in turn means that the Lordstown talk by Bernie Sanders is relevant not only in Ohio but throughout the US and will idealistically impact global issues.  Then on Saturday I will be in Denver for the 4/20 celebration, the largest of its kind in the United States.  As cannabis becomes a political, economic, and sociocultural issue throughout the US and world, the relevance of this celebration is a global one.  It is even more imporant in that the issue penetrates into so many areas including access to medical marijuana, legalization and its impacts on incarceration, state versus federal laws and the battle between the two, etc.  Following that I head to Buffalo, New York for the largest Dyngus Day celebration in the United States.

 

Each of these events offer real-time opportunities for Live News but instead I will now find myself uploading them as regular stock.  If one looks through my portfolio they will see that my photos tend to cover demonstrations (time specific), government news (time specific), and other events.  Again, I maybe uploaded Live News photos a couple times a month albeit during the summer months moreso than the winter months.  I used the Live News outlet sparingly but now have been trying to figure out where to submit Live News to where relevance of events in my area are viewed with interest. 

 

It is what it is. After the recent 20 percent reduction for non-exclusive photos and then the Live News issue I have learned to not expect much from Alamy at this point.

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