Alex_1 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, wiskerke said: When I'm trying to search for an image of Manhattan panoramic cloudy, I get 1 result, but no image. Maybe they have reacted already? IngImage is not a fly by night company. wim here it is https://www.alamy.com/search.html?CreativeOn=1&adv=1&ag=0&all=1&creative=&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&qt=Panoramic view of architectural city buildings on a cloudy day in Manhattan&qn=&lic=6&lic=1&imgt=0&archive=1&dtfr=&dtto=&hc=&selectdate=&size=0xFF&aqt=&epqt=&oqt=&nqt=>ype=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Ashmore Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alex_1 said: here it is https://www.alamy.com/search.html?CreativeOn=1&adv=1&ag=0&all=1&creative=&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&qt=Panoramic view of architectural city buildings on a cloudy day in Manhattan&qn=&lic=6&lic=1&imgt=0&archive=1&dtfr=&dtto=&hc=&selectdate=&size=0xFF&aqt=&epqt=&oqt=&nqt=>ype=0 Is this your upload? : https://www.photocase.com/photos/2416402-manhattan-panorama-from-brooklyn-bridge-park-ny-blue-town-photocase-stock-photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 null 16 minutes ago, Alex_1 said: here it is https://www.alamy.com/search.html?CreativeOn=1&adv=1&ag=0&all=1&creative=&et=0x000000000000000000000&vp=0&loc=0&qt=Panoramic view of architectural city buildings on a cloudy day in Manhattan&qn=&lic=6&lic=1&imgt=0&archive=1&dtfr=&dtto=&hc=&selectdate=&size=0xFF&aqt=&epqt=&oqt=&nqt=>ype=0 Yes that's on Alamy. I have tried on their own site: https://www.ingimage.com When I try: https://www.ingimage.com/index.cfm?/search_EN&cp=16330313-94A5-8F6D-01D2CFFD70ACFD5E&ucriteriaAll=Panorama cloudy Manhattan It says: 11 results, but only 8 are showing. wim Edit 2: After refreshing 10 times it now shows all 11 images, but not your image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_1 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, wiskerke said: null Yes that's on Alamy. I have tried on their own site: https://www.ingimage.com When I try: https://www.ingimage.com/index.cfm?/search_EN&cp=16330313-94A5-8F6D-01D2CFFD70ACFD5E&ucriteriaAll=Panorama cloudy Manhattan It says: 11 results, but only 8 are showing. wim Edit 2: After refreshing 10 times it now shows all 11 images, but not your image. that's what confused me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_1 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 23 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said: Is this your upload? : https://www.photocase.com/photos/2416402-manhattan-panorama-from-brooklyn-bridge-park-ny-blue-town-photocase-stock-photo yes, it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_1 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 FYI - problem solved. I also submitted this photo to Photocase and they shared it with Ingimage Ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It's still there Wim.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, RedSnapper said: It's still there Wim.. Yes it is, but it was not (or not anymore) on their own site https://www.ingimage.com. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, LawrensonPhoto said: No QC then? Agencies don't have to go through QC. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brooks Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 If you upload the same non exclusive image to multiple agencies they will share it with other agencies. Consider that you upload your non exclusive image to 5 different agencies. Does that mean that your image is on 10 different agencies through agency image sharing? So Agency1 where you uploaded the image, and with whom you have the contract, shares it with Agency2. Then Agency2 shares it with Agency3. Agency 3 makes a sale so you then split the sale proceeds with all agencies in the chain, Agency1, Agency2, and Agency3. Considering that some of these agencies pay a commission of only 20% and you are at the end of the payment chain, you are going to receive very little. Consider what happens if Agency2 has fallen on hard times and cannot pay royalties to agency1 for the royalties it receives for the agency3 sale. Your payment comes from Agency1. How do you get any money? What happens if Agency2 is sold to Agency4? Are your images transferred from Agency2 to the Agency4? In that case what is the chain of royalties when new Agency4 makes a sale? Where are your images? Who represents you? How do you get paid? Who controls copyright? What is the royalty contract between Agency1, Agency2, Agency3, agency4? Very difficult to make any sense of the situation. The same images are appearing all over the internet at different price points and different sales conditions. It is something that the industry needs to clean up. Not only for photographers, but for itself. This is why I think an image exclusive agreement with one agency is the best deal for photographers and for agencies. If photographers want to be represented by multiple agencies, submitting the same image on a non exclusive basis to multiple agencies is not the way to go. Instead, submit completely different images, on an exclusive basis, to each agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_1 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Sounds completely reasonable. Except one thing. Exclusive contract means that you submitted it to only 1 agency - let say Alamy. What stops Alamy to share this image with Photocase or Shutterstock? Does exclusive contract means that agency can't share image? It means that you can't share image with another agency. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alex_1 said: Sounds completely reasonable. Except one thing. Exclusive contract means that you submitted it to only 1 agency - let say Alamy. What stops Alamy to share this image with Photocase or Shutterstock? Does exclusive contract means that agency can't share image? It means that you can't share image with another agency. Am I right? On Alamy you can opt out of distribution. In that case: no. With some agencies you do submit just because they have good or even extremely good rank with the agencies they distribute to, so there you expect to be distributed. Blend is/was like that. (Phasing out now.) If you look around closely on Alamy you'll find a whole lot of those aggregator agencies. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brooks Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 15 hours ago, wiskerke said: On Alamy you can opt out of distribution. In that case: no. With some agencies you do submit just because they have good or even extremely good rank with the agencies they distribute to, so there you expect to be distributed. Blend is/was like that. (Phasing out now.) If you look around closely on Alamy you'll find a whole lot of those aggregator agencies. wim It is on the public record that, shortly before Blend started to close down, Blend was owed $316,663.00 in royalties by one of their subagents. The subagent made an offer to creditors like Blend, other primary agencies, and individual photographers, of 21 cents on the dollar payable over 5 years. The offer was accepted by the creditors. If you are uploading images to multiple primary agencies, try to check out the financial position of everyone in the royalty chain. Both primary agency and their subagents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Johansen Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 offtopic: with that much of sensor-dust, it's strange any agency accept it. But great you figured out the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, Roger Johansen said: offtopic: with that much of sensor-dust, it's strange any agency accept it. Ooh, nasty, as Leslie Phillips would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Bill Brooks said: If you upload the same non exclusive image to multiple agencies they will share it with other agencies. Consider that you upload your non exclusive image to 5 different agencies. Does that mean that your image is on 10 different agencies through agency image sharing? So Agency1 where you uploaded the image, and with whom you have the contract, shares it with Agency2. Then Agency2 shares it with Agency3. Agency 3 makes a sale so you then split the sale proceeds with all agencies in the chain, Agency1, Agency2, and Agency3. Considering that some of these agencies pay a commission of only 20% and you are at the end of the payment chain, you are going to receive very little. Consider what happens if Agency2 has fallen on hard times and cannot pay royalties to agency1 for the royalties it receives for the agency3 sale. Your payment comes from Agency1. How do you get any money? What happens if Agency2 is sold to Agency4? Are your images transferred from Agency2 to the Agency4? In that case what is the chain of royalties when new Agency4 makes a sale? Where are your images? Who represents you? How do you get paid? Who controls copyright? What is the royalty contract between Agency1, Agency2, Agency3, agency4? Very difficult to make any sense of the situation. The same images are appearing all over the internet at different price points and different sales conditions. It is something that the industry needs to clean up. Not only for photographers, but for itself. This is why I think an image exclusive agreement with one agency is the best deal for photographers and for agencies. If photographers want to be represented by multiple agencies, submitting the same image on a non exclusive basis to multiple agencies is not the way to go. Instead, submit completely different images, on an exclusive basis, to each agency. You're correct about aggregators. I foolishly submitted images to one a few years ago. At the time, it seemed like a good idea. Caveat emptor! Actually, creating distributor networks was probably a big mistake for agencies. They just end up undercutting themselves a lot of the time. Also, having so many distributors is likely to cause philosophical (for lack of a better adjective) problems for agencies if they want to start offering images as exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andremichel Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Roger Johansen said: offtopic: with that much of sensor-dust, it's strange any agency accept it. But great you figured out the problem. So visible even on low res image viewing on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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