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Posted (edited)

Given the upcoming contract changes, would it be acceptable to mark an image like the one below as "Available only on Alamy" -- i.e. is there enough "context" (or whatever) for the murals?

 

What do you think?

 

diego-rivera-murals-depicting-the-histor

 

P.S. It isn't available at another agency at the moment.

 

 

Edited by John Mitchell

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You can only be accountable for your own image

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Posted (edited)

Knowing nothing about the artwork in the picture, and with the usual caveat of saying I am not a lawyer, my first impression is that this is a single artwork spread across several sections of wall occupying most of the image frame. If it were my image I would be thinking that there is very little wider context. On the rare occasions I deal with any kind of artwork, even in a public place, I try follow the example of the newspapers and include a person who is looking at the artwork, ideally as a part of a wider street or other location scene. 

 

ETA I'm puzzled as to why the issue of depicting artwork in context should impact on the 'Only available on Alamy' question. Two separate issues, surely?

Edited by Joseph Clemson
Clarification

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

 

ETA I'm puzzled as to why the issue of depicting artwork in context should impact on the 'Only available on Alamy' question. Two separate issues, surely?

Because the contract specifies that images of artwork can't be marked as exclusive.

The debate is over one's interpretation of "of". Have a look at the thread, inter alia:

I think John wants me to clarify my opinion. But it's a decision you have to make for yourself.

Edited by spacecadet

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32 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Because the contract specifies that images of artwork can't be marked as exclusive.

The debate is over one's interpretation of "of". Have a look at the thread, inter alia:

I think John wants me to clarify my opinion. But it's a decision you have to make for yourself.

 

Ah, now I see the problem. That clause 2.7 doesn't read like proper English. I think it is saying (unqualified opinion here) four things can't be exclusive to Alamy: images of artworks, images not protected by copyright, images in the public domain and images where the ownership of copyright is unknown.  The clause is actually about as clear as a foggy day in a coal cellar so some clarification from Alamy would be helpful.

 

I would also take the view, at least for my own purposes, that even artworks which are photographed in a wider context can easily be cropped by the client so the context is no longer evident. On that basis I would probably lean  towards a cautious stance and not mark any images containing any element of the items mentioned in clause 2.7 as exclusive to Alamy. 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies. Here's what I think about the image that I posted above. Along with the murals (famous ones in Cuernavaca, Mexico), the image has architectural elements. In addition, a photo-buyer probably would be just as interested in the location (i.e. the building) as the murals themselves. Consequently, I wouldn't think there would be any problem marking this image as "Only available on Alamy". However, I have no idea what Alamy would say.

 

UPDATE: I just saw Alamy's recent clarification post. Looks to me like this image would probably fit the "exclusive" criteria. Very helpful. Thanks, Alamy

 

"Images of artwork

Images of artwork in context can be marked as exclusive. The general rule of thumb is that the artwork can’t take up any more than 1/3 of the image frame."

Edited by John Mitchell

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I’ve gone through and marked mine as non-exclusive. Most were in context and a small part of the image. But those taken close up, I changed to non-exclusive. There were only 10-15 at the most. No big deal since none have licensed and probably never will.

 

Now, tell me about architecture.  If design elements are frame-filling, should they be excluded? For instance, a gargoyle closeup, a corbel? I have a few of those.

Betty

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

I’ve gone through and marked mine as non-exclusive. Most were in context and a small part of the image. But those taken close up, I changed to non-exclusive. There were only 10-15 at the most. No big deal since none have licensed and probably never will.

 

Now, tell me about architecture.  If design elements are frame-filling, should they be excluded? For instance, a gargoyle closeup, a corbel? I have a few of those.

Betty

 

Lucky you. It's going to take me quite some time to sort everything out.

 

Don't know the answer to your question, but I'm not going to worry about architectural details unless Alamy tells me to.

Edited by John Mitchell

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The more I dig into my collection, the more confused I get about what constitutes "artwork."

 

Paintings, murals, sculptures are pretty obvious. However, what about masks, totem poles, archaeological artifacts, etc.? I 've got 100's of images of these subjects.

 

HELP!

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Alamy isn't setting a trap. It's clear to me what is meant.

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Posted (edited)

Deleted by me -- think I've figured this one out.

 

 

 

Edited by John Mitchell
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Posted (edited)

Best to contact me thru PhotoShelter (easy to find my website).

 

However, I'm sure that I'm not the only one confused about this subject and unsure what Alamy is getting at, so it it's worth trying to sort things out here as well IMO.

 

 

Edited by John Mitchell
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22 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

Best to contact me thru PhotoShelter (easy to find my website).

 

However, I'm sure that I'm not the only one confused about this subject and unsure what Alamy is getting at, so it it's worth trying to sort things out here as well IMO.

 

 

Thanks for the note, John.

Edited by spacecadet
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On 08/01/2019 at 17:15, John Mitchell said:

Thanks for the replies. Here's what I think about the image that I posted above. Along with the murals (famous ones in Cuernavaca, Mexico), the image has architectural elements. In addition, a photo-buyer probably would be just as interested in the location (i.e. the building) as the murals themselves. Consequently, I wouldn't think there would be any problem marking this image as "Only available on Alamy". However, I have no idea what Alamy would say.

 

UPDATE: I just saw Alamy's recent clarification post. Looks to me like this image would probably fit the "exclusive" criteria. Very helpful. Thanks, Alamy

 

"Images of artwork

Images of artwork in context can be marked as exclusive. The general rule of thumb is that the artwork can’t take up any more than 1/3 of the image frame."

 

Hi, can you post a link to the clarification please. Thanks. :)

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All my images converted to "only at Alamy" by Alamy, and then a few copies of historic paintings in the public domain, and other non exclusive images, unticked by me.

 

Decision made. Will make it work. Time to move on.

Edited by Bill Brooks

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Hello! This may be a silly question but I am new to this website. Am I still allowed to post my pictures that I have uploaded on here onto social media or is it sort of relinquishing all ownership? Thank you!

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5 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

All my images converted to "only at Alamy" by Alamy, and then a few copies of historic paintings in the public domain, and other non exclusive images, unticked by me.

 

Decision made. Will make it work. Time to move on.

 

I'm impressed. I've been working backwards from 2019, submission by submission, and I am now at 2011. However, I have images elsewhere, so I have to rummage around for them.

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You can pick more than one submission at a time as long as there are no more than 500 images. Or maybe I'm not understanding what you are doing. I ticked all of my images very quickly with my small portfolio.

 

Paulette

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1 hour ago, NYCat said:

You can pick more than one submission at a time as long as there are no more than 500 images. Or maybe I'm not understanding what you are doing. I ticked all of my images very quickly with my small portfolio.

 

Paulette

 

I pretty much have to go one submission -- or at most two or three subs -- at a time because I have to weed out images that have been sent to other outlets. Five hundred  images is too many for me to deal with at one time. If all my images were exclusive to Alamy, I'd choose the 500 option. The task is turning out to be not as onerous as I thought it would be. Figuring out the artwork thing isn't much fun, though.

Edited by John Mitchell

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36 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

Figuring out the artwork thing isn't much fun, though.

I searched for keyword 'statue', and tried to estimate 1/3 of the image for the 'maybe/maybe not' ones. A lot of tilting my head this way and that and trying to put the statue in the corner to estimate the area ... I hope I've done it correctly; if not, it wasn't intentional.

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It looks to me like Alamy is blurring two issues here.

 

When I mark images as "only available on Alamy" it means that I am not offering licences for this particular image via any other agency. That's straightforward.

 

But what Alamy seem to be trying to do is to interpret "only available on Alamy" as indicating that there's something "exclusive" about the content of the image, hence the clause about artwork and copyright... 

 

The Contributor acknowledges and accepts that Images of artworks, or that are not protected by copyright, or that are in the public domain or for which copyright ownership is unknown must never be marked as “Only available on Alamy”

 

This is causing some confusion. If Alamy are hoping to use "only available on Alamy" as a way of indicating to customer that an image contains exclusive content, they could run into problems. There are so  many almost identical pictures of many common views or items on Alamy from different contributors. Even if they are all marked as only available on Alamy there's no way no way exclusive content could claimed...

 

I think Alamy should keep it simple. "Only available on Alamy" should simply indicate the contributor is not offering licences for this image via any other agency.

 

Simples... Easier to understand and enforce.

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
  • Upvote 1

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30 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

But what Alamy seem to be trying to do is to interpret "only available on Alamy" as indicating that there's something "exclusive" about the content of the image, hence the clause about artwork and copyright...

The Contributor acknowledges and accepts that Images of artworks, or that are not protected by copyright, or that are in the public domain or for which copyright ownership is unknown must never be marked as “Only available on Alamy”

That first 'or' is very confusing: I don't what it means at all in the context of the sentence.

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