Jools Elliott

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Betty, I can only wish you good luck.

 

And I wish all you others the best also. What was it Bob D said? The times they are a changing. 

 

Edo

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36 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

Betty, I can only wish you good luck.

 

And I wish all you others the best also. What was it Bob D said? The times they are a changing. 

 

Edo

 

 

I never said that :)

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13 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said:

The "You know what has been inserted into the Pooch"  Luckily I still have relations

with several Tier 1 agencies, just need to make a decision which and then I am gone.

 

FYI, I will miss many in the forum, with a few exceptions.....

 

Chuck Nacke

 

I will miss you on the forum, Chuck. Good luck with whatever you decide. 

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On 12/4/2018 at 09:07, amycicconi said:

Unfortunate.... and I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but I'm invested here. 

 

I don't personally have the time or energy to start over with another agency.  This year I had more sales and more revenue than any other in my 10 years here.  I'm going to continue to build my Alamy portfolio.  I consider what I upload here a lifelong investment that will continue to generate sideline revenue into my retirement.

 

A reduced revenue is better than no revenue share.

 

I appreciate not being bashed for my opinion.  

 

 

Early on in these threads I made the above post.  

 

I just wanted to say that I have continued to read all posts here, and I have realized how big of an impact this is to those Alamy photographers who are long-time, full time photographers or who depend on stock income as a large source of their income.    If that was the case for me, I know that I would be more angry, disappointed and upset.

 

I do think that Alamy, being so free with their submission processes, fosters many photographers (and non-photographers, to be honest) for whom photography is more of a sideline income, me falling into that class.  Personally, I shoot more for the artistic pleasure and enjoyment and the fact that I can also sell my better photos via stock is a bonus - a sideline income.  I do strive for quality images and have been photographing my entire life, so theoretically being lumped in the negative "amateur" pool stings a bit, but, I understand it.  I also think all of the efforts noted throughout these threads to improve the quality of images present on Alamy would go a long way.

 

I guess I just wanted to come back to clarify that I am not at all disagreeing with the complaints being raised here, and I respect greatly each of you who have worked hard to build great great image collections here.  Not that anyone knows me or cares about my opinion anyway, but I just didn't like the fact that my negatively received comment would sit in eternity here.

 

I guess my point is simply that different people have different perspectives and motivations for being on Alamy, which can influence their reaction and tolerance or lack of tolerance.

 

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2 minutes ago, amycicconi said:

 

 

Early on in these threads I made the above post.  

 

I just wanted to say that I have continued to read all posts here, and I have realized how big of an impact this is to those Alamy photographers who are long-time, full time photographers or who depend on stock income as a large source of their income.    If that was the case for me, I know that I would be more angry, disappointed and upset.

 

I do think that Alamy, being so free with their submission processes, fosters many photographers (and non-photographers, to be honest) for whom photography is more of a sideline income, me falling into that class.  Personally, I shoot more for the artistic pleasure and enjoyment and the fact that I can also sell my better photos via stock is a bonus - a sideline income.  I do strive for quality images and have been photographing my entire life, so theoretically being lumped in the negative "amateur" pool stings a bit, but, I understand it.  I also think all of the efforts noted throughout these threads to improve the quality of images present on Alamy would go a long way.

 

I guess I just wanted to come back to clarify that I am not at all disagreeing with the complaints being raised here, and I respect greatly each of you who have worked hard to build great great image collections here.  Not that anyone knows me or cares about my opinion anyway, but I just didn't like the fact that my negatively received comment would sit in eternity here.

 

I guess my point is simply that different people have different perspectives and motivations for being on Alamy, which can influence their reaction and tolerance or lack of tolerance.

 

For what it is worth - and people here may disagree - I was told long ago that Amateur is not a negative judgement on quality when it came to photography - that a professional is one who earns more than half their income from photography regardless of the quality and Amateur one who does not depend on the income - and who may take much higher quality images.  There is no shame in being called an Amateur.

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1 minute ago, Starsphinx said:

For what it is worth - and people here may disagree - I was told long ago that Amateur is not a negative judgement on quality when it came to photography - that a professional is one who earns more than half their income from photography regardless of the quality and Amateur one who does not depend on the income - and who may take much higher quality images.  There is no shame in being called an Amateur.

 

 

interesting perspective - thanks for sharing that!

 

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Like many I'm sitting on this 40% issue and wondering what to do. All those countless hours of key wording and uploading could all be gone with a few clicks. It's a tough call, but here's the thing, where are all the images gonna go?

Some talk of joining Getty, maybe if you have a unique collection but general stock ?  you won't get in unless it's via another agency,  another interesting angle is that Alamy images that have been licensed are  almost toxic to potential new agencies because of the (virtually RF) terms Alamy supplies along with RM sales.

 

Looking for an exclusive agent may result in lots of dead ends, and probably a lower cut than the 40% - I'm with Getty and as we know their cut is dire.  There ain't much of a way out of this and after 15 years with Alamy, 18000 images and declining sales across the whole stock industry you know what?  I don't really care anymore. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, GaryK said:

 and after 15 years with Alamy, 18000 images and declining sales across the whole stock industry you know what?  I don't really care anymore. 

 

 

 

For some of us the consideration is not whether to give up on Alamy in order to move to another library, but whether to give up on stock photography full stop. We have to run harder and harder on the treadmill for constantly diminishing returns while the agents take more and more of the pie. 

 

I know it's hard to believe, but there is life beyond stock.

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39 minutes ago, amycicconi said:

I just didn't like the fact that my negatively received comment would sit in eternity here.

Glad you posted today! Your original message was well-reasoned and right for you. In fact, it was 'ahead of the curve'. Soon Alamy will thank everyone for their comments, new contract will be released, and most will stay. Ian M (geogphotos) was prophetic about this on another thread. I see your name in threads about sales. You're shooting more salable stuff than most.

 

You asked another question in a thread that got deleted. In checking that out I found some photos of mine being marketed even tho I deleted them 6 months ago. I've contacted support@stoc..imo.com and am waiting for an explanation. If I learn anything that might interest you, I'll contact you via your website.

 

Issue #3- Still no email to me about upcoming contract changes. How come tech giant Alamy can't manage to send an email to a frequent contributor? 

 

 

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To all,

 

After re-reading this entire thread I feel the need

to clarify something that I wrote.

 

I have nothing against "Amateur" photographers,

I used that during an exchange with one person

who claimed to know everything about contracts.

 

Now I will state again,  I will not let this go away

and just continue on.  If Alamy can not hold to

a 50 / 50 split on direct licenses then Alamy is

not a library that I wish to contribute to.

 

Chuck Nacke

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@Chuck Nacke

 

All IMHO

 

Unfortunately there are few places, regardless of "Tier" that infuse any real optimism at the moment and the absolute top three Tier 1s are having lower RPD than Alamy, but higher RPI, they all also have lower contributor commission - one topping out at 40% for home territory RM sales, but generally they hover around the 20-30% mark. Also take note that there is credible insight that states that a reduction will occur at the debt laden one. So the choice is probably not so much about "where to go", but more continuing playing or get out completely... The only thing that makes real sense if one has real unique material is to go it "alone", of course a risky enterprise and doesn't work for generalists, but at least then one gets to keep 90-95% of whatever price level one choose.

 

I've said for some time (not here) that we're overdue a global recession and due to the state of many of the agents/libraries the landscape will look vastly different on the other end side of it - it will be a massive paradigm shift. The ones with the means to do something are doing nothing, but opening the floodgates and I guess hope for the best, being under immense pressure from shareholders to deliver quarter over quarter growth at all cost.

 

So I agree with your idealism of a 50%/50% split signalling a partnership and loyalty etc. I wish that Alamy would have been able to continue that, but I also genuinely think that from a business perspective i.e. going concern, they are doing the right thing (for them as a business) if they are indeed genuine in their statements, but yes unfortunately that means that they are prioritizing themselves over contributors - we're all adults, so lets not delude ourselves in thinking that the majority of us are not generally quite easily replaceable and that this is anything more than business, the "feel good" veil is just a veil - we're just not as valuable as we'd like to think.

 

So a bitter pill for "us" to swallow, but personally I rather reduce my share and invest my time in a library/agent that at least are trying to hold out on the minimum licensing fees and thinking ahead in terms of strengthening themselves to be able to weather the brewing storm, and fingers crossed will actually (try to) capitalise on it - that is the one hope I carry which also would entail a positive net effect in our wallets. I guess it all depends on what we believe will happen over the next few years.

Edited by Martin Carlsson
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30 minutes ago, Chuck Nacke said:

To all,

 

After re-reading this entire thread I feel the need

to clarify something that I wrote.

 

I have nothing against "Amateur" photographers,

I used that during an exchange with one person

who claimed to know everything about contracts.

 

Now I will state again,  I will not let this go away

and just continue on.  If Alamy can not hold to

a 50 / 50 split on direct licenses then Alamy is

not a library that I wish to contribute to.

 

Chuck Nacke

 

From what I have read a lot of contributors are feeling the same as you including myself.  I will not do anything drastic yet, plenty of time before February email, but will consider and investigate alternatives.

 

Allan

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Martin Carlsson said:

@Chuck Nacke

 

All IMHO

 

Unfortunately there are few places, regardless of "Tier" that infuse any real optimism at the moment and the absolute top three Tier 1s are having lower RPD than Alamy, but higher RPI, they all also have lower contributor commission - one topping out at 40% for home territory RM sales, but generally they hover around the 20-30% mark. Also take note that there is credible insight that states that a reduction will occur at the debt laden one. So the choice is probably not so much about "where to go", but more continuing playing or get out completely... The only thing that makes real sense if one has real unique material is to go it "alone", of course a risky enterprise and doesn't work for generalist, but at least then one gets to keep 90-95% of whatever price level one choose.

 

I've said for some time (not here) that we're overdue a global recession and due to the state of many of the agents/libraries the landscape will look vastly different on the other end side of it - it will be a massive paradigm shift. The ones with the means to do something are doing nothing, but opening the floodgates and I guess hope for the best, being under immense pressure from shareholders to deliver quarter over quarter growth at all cost.

 

So I agree with your idealism of a 50%/50% split signalling a partnership and loyalty etc. I wish that Alamy would have been able to continue that, but I also genuinely think that from a business perspective i.e. going concern, they are doing the right thing (for them as a business), but yes unfortunately that means that they are prioritizing themselves over contributors - we're all adults, so lets not delude ourselves in thinking that we're not generally replaceable and that this is anything more than business, the "feel good" veil is just a veil - we're just not as valuable as we'd like to think.

 

So a bitter pill for "us" to swallow, but personally I rather reduce my share and invest my time in a library/agent that at least are trying to hold out on the minimum licensing fees and thinking ahead in terms of strengthening themselves to be able to weather the brewing storm, and fingers crossed will actually (try to) capitalise on it. I guess it all depends on what we believe will happen over the next few years.

 

2019 = 40%

2020 = 30%

2021 = 20%

 

:(:(:(:(:(

 

Allan

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

2019 = 40%

2020 = 30%

2021 = 20%

 

:(:(:(:(:(

 

Allan

 

 

 

If it is just about the "%" have a look around and you'll soon see that the credible alternatives aren't many (unless you're a specialist). Completely agree with the sad faces, hope you're wrong with your prediction! 

 

It is damn hard to stay positive, but if choosing to "remain" I guess there is no other point than "getting on with things" and hope for the best. I really hope that Alamy will use the cut for the benefit of not just themselves, but also us. At least I see longevity here that I fail to see at others, whether stock photography will be sustainable or not is another matter altogether, but there are MANY options within photography/videography or connected to it.

Edited by Martin Carlsson
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1 minute ago, Martin Carlsson said:

 

If it is just about the "%" have a look around and you'll soon that the credible alternatives aren't many (unless you're a specialist). Completely agree with the sad faces, hope you're wrong with your prediction! 

 

So do I but the whole thing is pretty much conjecture at the moment until Alamy has inwardly digested all comments on the forum threads and made their final decision as to their course of action. 

 

Then, and only then will we be able to take our individual course of action.

 

Allan

 

 

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1 minute ago, Allan Bell said:

 

So do I but the whole thing is pretty much conjecture at the moment until Alamy has inwardly digested all comments on the forum threads and made their final decision as to their course of action. 

 

Then, and only then will we be able to take our individual course of action.

 

Allan

 

 

 

I would be disappointed if they changed their decision as that would really show weakness in their self-belief and what they are setting out to do. Like I said yesterday - we/me don't like this, but if this is what they have decided to do, get on with it, pedal to the metal and make it worth the pain/worry/uncertainty/lost revenue and deliver for us - no time for dillie-dallie.

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3 minutes ago, Martin Carlsson said:

 

I would be disappointed if they changed their decision as that would really show weakness in their self-belief and what they are setting out to do. Like I said yesterday - we/me don't like this, but if this is what they have decided to do, get on with it, pedal to the metal and make it worth the pain/worry/uncertainty/lost revenue and deliver for us - no time for dillie-dallie.

 

Take your point Martin. However as I said in another post we are not employees but most companies look after their employees as they are their most valuable asset and I think Alamy should see their contributors in the same light. Yes we are free to walk away, if we want to, at any time but if a company shows loyalty to its' workers then generally the employees will show loyalty to employer. Similar to alamy contributors situation.

 

I am not saying they should back-pedal but something in the form of a show of loyalty to help counteract the feeling being generated at the moment between Alamy and some of their contributors would go some way to alleviating the anger being felt at the recent announcement of a reduction in royalties.

 

At the moment we still have to February as does Alamy to make our final decisions.

 

Allan

 

BTW Many thanks for your help some time ago by imparting your knowledge of printing at home or in the office and tools used etc.

 

ITMA

 

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2 hours ago, amycicconi said:

 

 

interesting perspective - thanks for sharing that!

 

Amateur: people who do something purely out of love (amare)

Professional: does it for the money, they may well also love what they do, but they often make choices based on the bottom line. E.g. in photography the area they love most may not be the one which generates most money, so they sideline that and move with the money genres.

As Estelle said, 'amateur' and 'professional' doesn't necessarily have bearing on the 'quality' of the images made, unless your only definition of 'quality' is 'commercially successful'.

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13 minutes ago, Martin Carlsson said:

 

I would be disappointed if they changed their decision as that would really show weakness in their self-belief and what they are setting out to do. 

 

- or thoughtfulness. Take another round before final decision. Alamy has earlier listened to their contributors - normally in less serious cases, though.

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33 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

2019 = 40%

2020 = 30%

2021 = 20%

 

:(:(:(:(:(

 

Allan

 

 

The cut to 50% was in January 2013.

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3 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

The cut to 50% was in January 2013.

 

Supposedly to fund the expansion in the American office. It should now be paying for itself and the commission levels, in my view, ought to have been reinstated.

 

Allan

 

 

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Like a few others here I have in the past resisted the move to microstock believing this only damaged the industry. I have foolishly been exclusive to Alamy until now.
We have all suffered reducing licence fees for a few years, some of those are even below microstock prices. Now we seem to be heading towards microstock levels of commission.
However, unlike microstock we also have to suffer sometimes months of wait for a use to be reported and then months again to finally get paid and even then, you cannot be sure it won’t be refunded after the buyer has already downloaded the image file. As a business model it leaves a lot to be desired to say the least.
Like others, even though I have a small portfolio I have put a lot of hours into the work involved. So, after a few days consideration I have decided I won’t delete my images here but I also will not upload any more images to Alamy. I have also been accepted on the tier 1 microstock site and my first few images are now live, I figure if I am suffering microstock levels of fees and microstock levels of commission, I might as well go the whole hog and join microstock agencies, something I thought I would never do.
To be honest I don’t do this for the money, I am retired with a good pension. But after nearly 50 years of running my own company, often working 14-15 hour days, I need something I enjoy to keep me occupied on the wet and windy days like today.

 

ps. If that doesn't work, I will turn my back on stock once and for all. 

Edited by BobD
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23 minutes ago, Niels Quist said:

 

- or thoughtfulness. Take another round before final decision. Alamy has earlier listened to their contributors - normally in less serious cases, though.

 

True - two sides to the coin, different perspectives. 

 

Being optimistic - 40% and Alamy makes great headway within the market/industry over the next 1-3 years with a noticeable positive net effect in my wallet.

 

Being negative - 50% and Alamy stays "loyal" but at the expense of not really getting anywhere within the market, perhaps even taking a tumble in an increasingly difficult market - wallet being unhappy.

 

Neutral - remain at 50% for existing contributors, honoring loyalty and commitment. 40% for new contributors. At the same time carry out stated cost cutting exercise. Engage and equip contributors in pushing/market Alamy further - crowd marketing. Wallet potentially happy? Alamy potentially happy? Compromise?

 

Also really think that something could be done with images exclusive to Alamy - untapped marketing potential at the moment.

Edited by Martin Carlsson

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15 minutes ago, BobD said:

Like a few others here I have in the past resisted the move to microstock believing this only damaged the industry. I have foolishly been exclusive to Alamy until now.
We have all suffered reducing licence fees for a few years, some of those are even below microstock prices. Now we seem to be heading towards microstock levels of commission.
However, unlike microstock we also have to suffer sometimes months of wait for a use to be reported and then months again to finally get paid and even then, you cannot be sure it won’t be refunded after the buyer has already downloaded the image file. As a business model it leaves a lot to be desired to say the least.
Like others, even though I have a small portfolio I have put a lot of hours into the work involved. So, after a few days consideration I have decided I won’t delete my images here but I also will not upload any more images to Alamy. I have also been accepted on the tier 1 microstock site and my first few images are now live, I figure if I am suffering microstock levels of fees and microstock levels of commission, I might as well go the whole hog and join microstock agencies, something I thought I would never do.
To be honest I don’t do this for the money, I am retired with a good pension. But after nearly 50 years of running my own company, often working 14-15 hour days, I need something I enjoy to keep me occupied on the wet and windy days like today.

 

ps. If that doesn't work, I will turn my back on stock once and for all. 

I am far newer to the whole business than yourself - but having dabbled in microstock a few years back and not paid much attention, my plan on joining Alamy was to focus exclusively here getting many more photos of a higher quality and build up for hopefully a good return.  However the news Tuesday has changed that plan - many of my images here have now been shared onto the microstock site I dabbled in.  Once I am finished finalizing those there I will be applying to a tier 1 place - Alamy has at least given me th confidence to think I might get accepted - and I will see how each place does.  If after 6 to 12 months I am making better money somewhere else I will be focusing somewhere else.  If Alamy wants to compete it better win.

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2 hours ago, KevinS said:

Glad you posted today! Your original message was well-reasoned and right for you. In fact, it was 'ahead of the curve'. Soon Alamy will thank everyone for their comments, new contract will be released, and most will stay. Ian M (geogphotos) was prophetic about this on another thread. I see your name in threads about sales. You're shooting more salable stuff than most.

 

You asked another question in a thread that got deleted. In checking that out I found some photos of mine being marketed even tho I deleted them 6 months ago. I've contacted support@stoc..imo.com and am waiting for an explanation. If I learn anything that might interest you, I'll contact you via your website.

 

Issue #3- Still no email to me about upcoming contract changes. How come tech giant Alamy can't manage to send an email to a frequent contributor? 

 

 

To you and others complaining about not receiving the email, have you checked your account settings.  You may have opted not to receive them.

 

Pearl

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