JeffGreenberg

miracle of AI single step processing has arrived???!!!!

Recommended Posts

Never ever have I jumped on something new

without hearing from dozens of "guinea pigs"...

But a DPR thread about this new single step

RAW processor (photo enhancer) led me to

watch couple of Youtube videos, including:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrT-LxKqOds

 

Was so impressed by "basic" treatment

(not as interested in the six styles)

that I pre-ordered 3.0 + bonuses for $35.

It becomes available Sep 17 AFAICT.

If it is one step miracle, my workflow will

be cut by 50+% !!!!!

 

Have others used earlier Photolemur...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new version of Aurora which come out soon claims to have AI, so maybe they are pushing this technology into their Aurora and Luminar packages. We've come a long way since I bought my D70 in 2006.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am way behind on AI and photo processing etc but isnt there a risk that with one step AI everyone's photos will start being a bit "samey"?  I mean isn't there an element of art and personalisation to processing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alamy = 145M images.

For any given subject, what percentage are NOT "samey"???!!

Two unprocessed not-samey images of London Eye both

receive same Photolemur treatment.  IMO, results stay not-samey...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Starsphinx said:

I am way behind on AI and photo processing etc but isnt there a risk that with one step AI everyone's photos will start being a bit "samey"?  I mean isn't there an element of art and personalisation to processing?

 

Those people who have unique post processing are unlikely to consider dropping it for a bit of speed. The rest of us -especially those of us who go back to the days of film - might well think that our images are more unique now than they were when we all shot the same film and processed it at the same lab.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Starsphinx said:

I am way behind on AI and photo processing etc but isnt there a risk that with one step AI everyone's photos will start being a bit "samey"?  I mean isn't there an element of art and personalisation to processing?

 

I would argue that for stock shooting it's the subject and to a lesser extent the composition that matter. AI might one day help us with composition, but it's never likely to be able to decide what subjects we shoot.

 

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JeffGreenberg said:

Alamy = 145M images.

For any given subject, what percentage are NOT "samey"???!!

Two unprocessed not-samey images of London Eye both

receive same Photolemur treatment.  IMO, results stay not-samey...

But where you have 2 images of London eye that are similar compositionally and over all the processing can make a huge difference to the end result.  It is something I, being very much at the start of the processing learning process, am aware of.  I see photos taken and developed by others that start very similar to my own - but after processing theirs have a zip and impact mine do not (and I then of course go and nag them to find out what they did that I did not lol).  So if Alamy ends up with 10 similar pictures of the London eye 9 of which were processed with same AI and 1 of which was done "by hand" as it were then you get 9 similar and 1 with a difference surely there is a likelihood the one with the difference will be picked over the other 9 purely because it is different.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starsphinx, I am dubious. "Surely?" Maybe not. Or maybe not enough to justify the huge effort that special processing requires. 

 

BTW ... thanks to this thread, I now know that the London Eye is that giant Ferris Wheel. Although I am unlikely to be in London anytime soon, I now really want to put this to the test. Would an image with interesting processing do better? Would any photo I shot of London rank high enough for buyers to even see it? A quick search shows that I have never sold an image of London on Alamy, ever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this really different from using presets in Lightroom?

 

Paulette

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends on the photographer Paulette. Some of us don't even use Lightroom. That alone will give us some difference. I am often in situations where differences in post processing will make or break a project, it just doesn't happen in stock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Would an image with interesting processing do better?

 

Yes.

Especially if you nail the current fashion.

So the success may be short lived. Unless you nail the next fashion just as well.

Fashion (style) can be quite different across subjects; the globe; industries. And then there's the huge gap between print and screen.

The question is: do the most fashionable images make the most money? Only if your style fits the industry that spends the most in the Alamy shop and there's not a huge competition.

My guess is that a lot of people here shoot for UK newspapers. And that their editing style tries to fit that.

 

wit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wim, back in the eighties and nineties, I did that with lifestyle and it was amazingly profitable. More recently, I have tried to ride food trends as they came and went. This has been very profitable at certain agencies, but not at all with Alamy. There really has to be solid understanding of style to make this work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some of us the goal:

maximum licensing activity via acceptable processing results;

because reduction in processing time = more shooting time = more new images = more licensing activity...

some of us license images daily that processing perfectionists can bash to a pixely pulp...

 

What got me onto Photolemur was a DPR thread.

But now at top of pg 2 in this thread is report of fringing:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4319830?page=2

although there is confusion as to whether this was via old Photolemur 2.3

since new version 3.0 could be improved & won't be released until Monday...

Edited by JeffGreenberg
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff, your way is certainly valid. I would suggest trying several of the more obscure raw processors and see how they do on auto. 

 

The equation for those high style/on trend images back in the day was Unique Image Quality + Contemporary Style = Very High Revenues + an automatic reason to shoot new images. These days, no stock images of any sort have that kind of earning potential so there's no sense in doing them for stock. (Although there's plenty of commercial work for those who can)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

... but it's never likely to be able to decide what subjects we shoot.

 

Alan

 

Let's hope not.

 

However, as someone who doesn't particularly enjoy post-processing, I'd be happy to let AI do the work as long as there are manual overrides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know anything about AI. However, I've been using DxO Optics Pro (now called PhotoLab) for RAW processing, and it has AI-like (?) smart/auto options for just about everything -- WB, exposure, lighting, noise, CA, distortion, lens softness, etc. -- if used with compatible camera bodies and lenses. I just let the software decide everything and then tweak to taste using the plentiful manual adjustments and overrides.  It has made post-processing a lot less onerous. I would go nuts if I had to manually process all the images that Jeff does, so I can appreciate where he's coming from in that regard, even though I'm a low-volume sort of guy.

Edited by John Mitchell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

I don't know anything about AI. However, I've been using DxO Optics Pro (now called PhotoLab) for RAW processing, and it has AI-like (?) smart/auto options for just about everything -- WB, exposure, lighting, noise, CA, distortion, lens softness, etc. -- if used with compatible camera bodies and lenses. I just let the software decide everything and then tweak to taste using the plentiful manual adjustments and overrides.  It has made post-processing a lot less onerous. I would go nuts if I had to manually process all the images that Jeff does, so I can appreciate where he's coming from in that regard, even though I'm a low-volume sort of guy.

To be honest the AI followed by personal tweaking of bits not liked will be the most likely workflow for the majority of people.  I use LR and if I have a high volume short time (ie after a football match I have 200 odd photos I need to get uploaded within a few hours) I use their "auto" button but where I have more time I love playing a bit more with the processing trying to find what looks best to me.

There is also of course always going to be the actual choice of position composition before taking the shot and the choice of which photos make it to be processed and which are discarded which again adds in individuality.  I just have horrible imaginings of schools with 30 children being taught to take the same photo, and press the same AI button, to produce the same end result.  I always remember the bit in the Hitchhikers trilogy (in five parts) about the "100 nearly identical photos of moodily lit tubes of toothpaste" and know it is something to be avoided if possible lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

 

I just have horrible imaginings of schools with 30 children being taught to take the same photo, and press the same AI button, to produce the same end result.  I always remember the bit in the Hitchhikers trilogy (in five parts) about the "100 nearly identical photos of moodily lit tubes of toothpaste" and know it is something to be avoided if possible lol

 

 

It's already happening. Just join the Facebook groups for my (and probably anyone else's) local town to see exactly this.  Especially when it starts snowing...

 

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 My best sale this year ($800) came from an image that I had spent a good deal of time on PP.  This involved doing lens correction for a manual only optic, "correcting" perspective,  using layers to optimise the appearance of different sections, and ages spent cloning out street clutter. The relationship between sale and work done may have been coincidental, but  I would like to think not. 

 

Clearly for many subjects/uses this would have been  time wasted - looking regularly at Newspaper web images, the picture editor has sometimes picked the first shot presented, when there are many better composed and worked photos available. Then we have Live News, of which I am seeing many more Alamy successes. I guess that speed and good in camera composition is of the essence.

 

The difficulty here is in picking the potential winners where a little extra effort could result is a decent payday.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Poof.

The Dream is gone.

Don't get Photolemur 3.0 app.

Many issues.  Results not satisfactory.

Didn't respond to $35 refund request.

Quick call to my Chase Busn cred card solved that!!!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a case of the emperor's new clothes. You can do multiple automatic processing of raw mages in Lightroom and use Adobe's version of AI. I seem to recall you upgraded to CC so all is there at your fingertips after a small learning curve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeff, all raw processors have an auto mode of some sort. All are worth testing. It should also be noted that one that gives something slightly offbeat on auto could be the bit of style that takes you to the next level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Jeff, all raw processors have an auto mode of some sort. All are worth testing. It should also be noted that one that gives something slightly offbeat on auto could be the bit of style that takes you to the next level.

 

But some are better than others at mass processing large numbers of raw (and other) images which is where Lightroom really stands out in comparison to ACR for example. And mass processing large numbers of raw images automatically if required (which it can do) is presumably what Jeff is ultimately looking to do according to his initial post. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Micheal, I suspect that there's more too it. Indeed, Lightroom may well be far better than ACR, but how does it compare to Capture 1? (Which I currently use) Or the many other processors that aren't made by Adobe? There are differences that become apparent when you start exploring. Jeff has expressed a willingness to go beyond Adobe and I think that's healthy. Indeed, I want to encourage him to push it further. Why? Because as one of Alamy's biggest volume producers, what he chooses takes will lead the way for the rest of us. From Silkypix Developer Studio, to DxO, to Corel Photo Paint - there are a vast number of possibilities, any of which might be the right one for us.

 

I don't think I've even named ten percent of the possibilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Micheal, I suspect that there's more too it. Indeed, Lightroom may well be far better than ACR, but how does it compare to Capture 1? (Which I currently use) Or the many other processors that aren't made by Adobe? There are differences that become apparent when you start exploring. Jeff has expressed a willingness to go beyond Adobe and I think that's healthy. Indeed, I want to encourage him to push it further. Why? Because as one of Alamy's biggest volume producers, what he chooses takes will lead the way for the rest of us. From Silkypix Developer Studio, to DxO, to Corel Photo Paint - there are a vast number of possibilities, any of which might be the right one for us.

 

I don't think I've even named ten percent of the possibilities.

 

I know what you are saying and I agree that it is healthy to try out beyond Adobe but, from previous encounters with Jeff on the forum, I think I would be right in saying that he has not actually given Lightroom a go at all (unless things have changed recently).

 

I am making a few points here. Firstly, the miracle of AI single step processing has not just arrived recently and Lightroom certainly has something that would fit this description if one wants to use it.

 

Secondly, it seems that Jeff is seeking a method of rapidly mass processing large quantities of images (presumably similar images). Now this is possible in other programs including ACR but it is the layout of the Library and Develop modules in Lightroom that really facilitate mass processing. On top of that Lightroom has an exceptionally fast database and it has excellent integration with Photoshop. All of these would I believe be of huge benefit to someone like Jeff so what I am essentially saying is that I believe he already has these facilities but does not recognise it as such as I don't believe he has attempted to use Lightroom (from previous conversations). 

 

I am no lover of monopolies but I will be sticking with AdobeCC because their Lightroom and Photoshop are the best apps overall for image processing and are exceptionally good value as well. There may be better raw converters than ACR/Lightroom (debatable) but for me the killer points are the integrated DAM with the raw processor in Lightroom and the integration with Photoshop. I may be wrong but I believe that those who say that other apps are as good or nearly as good as Photoshop often do not have the depth of knowledge to make really valid comparisons. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now