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Starsphinx

Do we need to start carrying copys of legal status of photography with us

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I have no problem with getting arrested when breaking the law - under the right circumstances I have no problem breaking the law.  I just have a problem with being prevented from doing my job when not breaking the law by idiots who have no idea what the law is and have decided I am breaking it anyway. 

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When anyone says "if you don't stop taking pictures, I'll phone the police", I watch as they pretend to call 999, then carry on shooting. Dumb insolence usually works...

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I would never argue legal matters on a street corner. During the relatively few years that I worked as a serious photo journalist I went with Herzog's basic theory. Get the picture. Rules and laws were something to step around, not follow. Now days I shoot only common access subjects for editorial stock on Alamy. If there's a problem I move on. My images are not more important than life on Earth. 

 

And I never never argue with people carrying weapons. A number of NYC police have told me I was not allowed to take pictures in the Subway. It is perfectly legal to do so, but I just thanked them and move on.

 

Something interesting I noticed in both Mexico and here in Spain is that people don't mind me snapping pics of their kids. I make a gesture and they smile and nod yes.  

 

 

Edo

 

 

Edited by Ed Rooney

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Merry Christmas, Ed. I always thought Mexicans are almost insulted if you don't give some attention to their children. Enjoy your pasta!

 

Paulette

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On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 12:20, Starsphinx said:

at is actually a question I am seriously considering.  I have had, like most photographers, been asked when taking photos on the street or a park, if it is legal for me to do so and I don't I need the people's permission and isn't it illegal to photograph children but last night it reached a whole new level.
 

 I carry a couple of copies of the Photographer guideline by the Association of Assistant chief constables

https://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/ACPO_Guidance_PhotographsPublicPlaces.pdf

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On 12/26/2018 at 20:19, Mark Baigent said:

 I carry a couple of copies of the Photographer guideline by the Association of Assistant chief constables

https://www.theiac.org.uk/resourcesnew/filming-in-public/ACPO_Guidance_PhotographsPublicPlaces.pdf

 

Me too; it's been useful on occasions...

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On 12/25/2018 at 02:33, Ed Rooney said:

Something interesting I noticed in both Mexico and here in Spain is that people don't mind me snapping pics of their kids. I make a gesture and they smile and nod yes.  

 

 

Edo

 

 

 

True also in Nicaragua, and I suspect all over Latin America.  People in general seem less afraid of having their pictures taken outside some political situations.  

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7 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

True also in Nicaragua, and I suspect all over Latin America.  People in general seem less afraid of having their pictures taken outside some political situations.  

It is not the political situation in the UK (and I am guessing the US) it is that media horror stories of "paedophiles" lurking on every corner photographing children to do unspeakable things to them in Photoshop, combined with some over-reactive official responses to ordinary occurrences (If your child falls down stairs and cuts their head and you take them to A&E notifications will be sent to the police social services the school and their GP)  has left a lot of parents convinced that every single adult they do not know personally is a voracious sexual predator out to destroy their children.

Although the processing and sharing of images have got somewhat easier with digital, the actual number of offenders has stayed relatively steady for many many decades - the only thing that has changed is the amount and focus of reporting - so people see a danger they did not see before - even though the chances of them being impacted has not changed.

 

Also, anyone that is out to take pictures of children for illegal purposes is highly unlikely to be doing it with a whopping great DSLR and lens set up, but is far more likely to be using a phone or even a completely covert set up.

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17 hours ago, Starsphinx said:

 

Also, anyone that is out to take pictures of children for illegal purposes is highly unlikely to be doing it with a whopping great DSLR and lens set up, but is far more likely to be using a phone or even a completely covert set up.

 

Nicaragua has real sexual predators and also very desperately poor families eager enough to accommodate them (friend had parents offer him a 12 year old because all single Anglo men of a certain age are believed to have come down here for things they can't get up there).  Worrying about someone photoshopping your child's face on a naked 12 year old's body is kinda silly when some of the gringo fanciers of naked 12 year olds can take those pictures in the privacy of their own homes (and if they don't post them to Facebook, as one guy did, nobody tends to care  -- the girl finally complained not that she was being used sexually, but that he embarrassed her by posting to FB).  

 

Both Nicaragua and Costa Rica have been cracking down on this.  

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6 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

Nicaragua has real sexual predators and also very desperately poor families eager enough to accommodate them (friend had parents offer him a 12 year old because all single Anglo men of a certain age are believed to have come down here for things they can't get up there).  Worrying about someone photoshopping your child's face on a naked 12 year old's body is kinda silly when some of the gringo fanciers of naked 12 year olds can take those pictures in the privacy of their own homes (and if they don't post them to Facebook, as one guy did, nobody tends to care  -- the girl finally complained not that she was being used sexually, but that he embarrassed her by posting to FB).  

 

Both Nicaragua and Costa Rica have been cracking down on this.  

A couple of generations ago I think attitudes were different here as well - not so much to the point of being prepared to offer children but there was a very definite "if the child doesnt know what someone is thinking about then what the person is thinking about cannot harm the child" - not a bad idea the problem with the internet being there are much higher chances of the child finding out what someone is thinking and of that thinking harming them. Of course go back further to the Victorian time and child prostitutes were common enough.   I think a big part of the problem of here is perceptions have changed - when I was a child predators were thought to be old men in dirty coats and as rare as hen's teeth and nobody thought anything of having their children naked at the beach or paddling pool until the ages of 7 or 8.  Now predators are thought to be anybody you don't know personally especially if they do not have their own child and are assumed to be so common you can't escape them.  The actual frequency of predators has not changed - but people believe it has.

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1 hour ago, Starsphinx said:

Now predators are thought to be anybody you don't know personally especially if they do not have their own child and are assumed to be so common you can't escape them. 

I don’t know where you get your knowledge or information from, or how we got onto this subject in a photography forum, but this isn’t correct. Most abuse happens by people children do know, and mostly within the family. Not having your own child has nothing to do with it, either. But, let’s get back to things photographic......

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8 hours ago, Sally said:

I don’t know where you get your knowledge or information from, or how we got onto this subject in a photography forum, but this isn’t correct. Most abuse happens by people children do know, and mostly within the family. Not having your own child has nothing to do with it, either. But, let’s get back to things photographic......

I know that and you know that (I am not talking about where most abuse happens I am talking about where people incorrectly think the most danger comes from) - the subject came up or rather is integral to this thread because I started it after being challenged by a professional on child safeguarding.  An awful lot of the errors and misconceptions about and around safeguarding come from the now incredibly common misconception that every person who cannot be vouched for by someone you know personally is a sexual predator - even if they are sat there with a hi-viz vest and 300mm lens.

Being challenged Joe public is something I expect and ignore as far as possible - I know full well that lots and lots of people have got completely mistaken ideas about predation on children (I also know they do not thank you if try and correct their misconceptions).  What I did not expect and was not prepared for was a professional in a field that will have covered some basic safeguarding to have the same misconceptions and to challenge me on them.  If professionals who should have learned the basics do not know basic photography rights what hope do we have - hence the question do we need to start carrying a copy of the law with us when doing our job.

 

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When I read the term safeguarding for the first time a while ago, I had to look it up. The term seems very specific to the UK (and maybe Ireland).

 

wim

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