Jump to content

Recommended Posts

While older Nikon lenses can be used on these cameras, you lose some of the “downsizing” aspect. Nikon lenses are pretty heavy.  I have at least 7 Fuji lenses, all made for mirrorless. The 80-400 Nikon lens was heavier than the 100-400 I use now. Maybe not a lot, I haven’t compared. Maybe it’s because the camera is lighter. 

Whatever, I could only shoot the Nikon zoom on a tripod or monopod, whereas I can hand hold the Fuji.  Could be a few ounces tipped the balance. The Nikon adapter will add some weight, too. 

If Nikon wants to be successful with mirrorless, they need to bring out a line of lenses made for these new cameras. Meanwhile, people can still use what they have with the adapter until they can afford new.

The thing Fuji had over Sony mirrorless is that these excellent lenses have been churned out from the beginning. From what I’ve read, Sony dragged their feet but finally added a few good lenses for mirrorless. I probably had at least 4 sharp-as-a-tack Fujinon lenses by the time Sony woke up and smelled the coffee.

Where Sony got it right from the starting line was the RX100s! :D

Betty

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe Fixation have a play day with these two in the next couple of weeks.  I need a couple of sensor cleans which they are doing half price on that day so I guess it makes sense to take a peek !  I did try my friends Fuji a short while ago, impressed with the images but not sure I could get used to an electronic viewfinder, not sure if they new Nikons have this, guess I'll soon find out.  Certainly wouldn't want to buy anymore lenses though.

 

Carol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

I believe Fixation have a play day with these two in the next couple of weeks.  I need a couple of sensor cleans which they are doing half price on that day so I guess it makes sense to take a peek !  I did try my friends Fuji a short while ago, impressed with the images but not sure I could get used to an electronic viewfinder, not sure if they new Nikons have this, guess I'll soon find out.  Certainly wouldn't want to buy anymore lenses though.

 

Carol

 

You better hurry. The open day is today :). I'm not going. More than incredibly happy with the D850. I do hope that Nikon succeed with these cameras but I think it will be some time and some new light lenses before they become highly desirable. The fact that they take all the older lenses with an adapter is a big plus but the weight difference between these and many existing DSLR bodies with lens attached is not going to be greatly significant for the bigger lenses given that most of the weight is in the lens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ooops I knew the date had an 8 in it - had it in mind for 8th September ah well never mind, I'll have a look when I go up there for sensor cleaning.  As you say I can't imagine the weight being much different with existing Nikon lenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What have people heard about wake-up evolution? In particular, how fast do these cameras become active again to make the first exposure? A couple of friends have Sonys and their problem continues to be the delay when first activating with the button - losing the very thing they're reacting to.

 

That's a huge problem for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I agree Richard.  I remember back in the day when I had a Minolta SLR, it may have been the Dynax, it had eye-start a similar thing, although you had the option to turn the function off which I did, guess it was quite funky it it's day !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things on this from me, one bothers me, the other I've not seen or may have missed.

First is the size - I've got big hands. My D810 and drive work well for me - as did the predecessors D700 and drive, F5, F90 and drive etc.....

My wife has a D5100 and I find it small for me - so nice as the Z's may be, perhaps we Neanderthals need help:)

 

Second one is form factor. I see the adaptor for old lenses, but does that move the lens further away? Are we getting any change in focal length 9in effect) like using an FX lens on a DX body? The adaptor looks a bit long. As said, it may have been covered by Nikon, but if so I missed it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think using an FX lens will turn it into a DX but I could be wrong.  Nikon are also bringing out a few new lenses one being 24-70 F4, think I will stick to my 24-70 2.8.  Also again the new models have electronic viewfinders which I'm not that keen on.  I will stick with what I've got but still interested to see one at some point.  Also a lot of folk are complaining they have only one card slot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

I don't think using an FX lens will turn it into a DX but I could be wrong.  Nikon are also bringing out a few new lenses one being 24-70 F4, think I will stick to my 24-70 2.8.  Also again the new models have electronic viewfinders which I'm not that keen on.  I will stick with what I've got but still interested to see one at some point.  Also a lot of folk are complaining they have only one card slot.

Carol, I made the transition to the electric viewfinder just fine. It took a bit to get used to, then became the new norm. On mine,  when I look through, What You See is What You Get. So I look, the image looks underexposed, I turn a knob on top of my camera. The exposure immediately looks brighter, and I am assured the RAW exposure will look exactly like what I saw through the viewfinder.

 I have the histogram showing, also. My exposures are much better than when I shot Nikon, which always seemed to underexpose.

Betty

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stephen Lloyd said:

Second one is form factor. I see the adaptor for old lenses, but does that move the lens further away?

Yes, it does. The flange distance (register) for F mount is 46.5mm; 16mm for the new Z mount. The Z mount is so much shorter because there is no mirror box. No change in lens focal length, 50mm will look the same on either camera. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2018 at 16:04, Stephen Lloyd said:

Two things on this from me, one bothers me, the other I've not seen or may have missed.

First is the size - I've got big hands. My D810 and drive work well for me - as did the predecessors D700 and drive, F5, F90 and drive etc.....

My wife has a D5100 and I find it small for me - so nice as the Z's may be, perhaps we Neanderthals need help:)

 

Second one is form factor. I see the adaptor for old lenses, but does that move the lens further away? Are we getting any change in focal length 9in effect) like using an FX lens on a DX body? The adaptor looks a bit long. As said, it may have been covered by Nikon, but if so I missed it.

 

The focal length remains the same with an adaptor.   The problem with adaptors is you usually lose some of the capabiity of the native lens.  This will be make clearer when there is some real use testing. 

 

This first iteration of mirrorless Nikons is just about where the previous genration of Sonys is.  They do have some good features, such as touch focus and I like the OLED read out on the top and the EVF looks very good as does the rear LCD.   They have Nikon weather proofing which may be important to some photographers.    I think it makes sense for Nikon users to add or swop to the Z mirrorless,   but if I were building a system from scratch I would choose Sony or maybe Fuji.  Nikon will need three years to generate a native lens line up for the Z.     Not sure why photographers want to persist with OVF when you can see your exact exposure in the viewfinder and have focus tracking and eye auto focus.  I would never go back to to an OVF camera. 

Edited by marc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2018 at 14:44, Richard Baker said:

What have people heard about wake-up evolution? In particular, how fast do these cameras become active again to make the first exposure? A couple of friends have Sonys and their problem continues to be the delay when first activating with the button - losing the very thing they're reacting to.

 

That's a huge problem for me.

Not sure what your friends are talking about.  Just switched on an took a shot with my A7RII.   Less than one second for the whole process.   If hadn't  switched it off there would be no time delay at all.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With optical there's no delay it's just there.   Whilst the eye start function maybe he way to go for some, I feel it's just another bit that could go wrong.  Let's face it there's enough to go wrong on any camera I know but if your electronic viewfinder packs up ??   On the plus side the batteries on Nikons are far superior to others I think and hopefully this will be the same with the new models.

 

Carol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, marc said:

 

The focal length remains the same with an adaptor.   The problem with adaptors is you usually lose some of the capabiity of the native lens.  This will be make clearer when there is some real use testing. 

 

This first iteration of mirrorless Nikons is just about where the previous genration of Sonys is.  They do have some good features, such as touch focus and I like the OLED read out on the top and the EVF looks very good as does the rear LCD.   They have Nikon weather proofing which may be important to some photographers.    I think it makes sense for Nikon users to add or swop to the Z mirrorless,   but if I were building a system from scratch I would choose Sony or maybe Fuji.  Nikon will need three years to generate a native lens line up for the Z.     Not sure why photographers want to persist with OVF when you can see your exact exposure in the viewfinder and have focus tracking and eye auto focus.  I would never go back to to an OVF camera. 

 

At first,  I was apprehensive about switching from an OVF,  but EVF's -- especially the current ones -- are superior in almost every respect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

At first,  I was apprehensive about switching from an OVF,  but EVF's -- especially the current ones -- are superior in almost every respect.

 

Absolutely, wouldn't go back to optical if you paid me.

 

And of course you can mount scores of old lenses on a mirrorless camera using a suitable adapter. I use old Zeiss, Pentax, and Olympus glass, and have an adapter to take recent Canon EOS lenses - on my Sony. 

 

My only concern is that I fear, in the desire to make these (new crop factor) lenses as small as possible, there is some loss of quality, particularly at the budget end of the spectrum. Older film era lenses are often way better, and, not having autofocus or image stabilisation, are generally light and compact. I've said it before but I'll say it again, the ancient Zuiko 50mm f1.8 is probably the best lens that I possess, small, light, bought for peanuts, but rivalling expensive Canon L glass. The nerd in me loves to see the unmatched pin sharpness that it achieves right across the frame, while with a f1.8 max aperture, hitting exact manual focus for shooting at f8 is child's play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CAROL SAUNDERS said:

With optical there's no delay it's just there.   Whilst the eye start function maybe he way to go for some, I feel it's just another bit that could go wrong.  Let's face it there's enough to go wrong on any camera I know but if your electronic viewfinder packs up ??   On the plus side the batteries on Nikons are far superior to others I think and hopefully this will be the same with the new models.

 

Carol

What if your mirror locks in your DSLR?   Sony mirrorless full frames are used by pro togs all over the world.  The battery life in the current gen Sonys is better than on the new Nikon Z and will get you though a full day shooting in most cases.       

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Bryan said:

 

Absolutely, wouldn't go back to optical if you paid me.

 

And of course you can mount scores of old lenses on a mirrorless camera using a suitable adapter. I use old Zeiss, Pentax, and Olympus glass, and have an adapter to take recent Canon EOS lenses - on my Sony. 

 

My only concern is that I fear, in the desire to make these (new crop factor) lenses as small as possible, there is some loss of quality, particularly at the budget end of the spectrum. Older film era lenses are often way better, and, not having autofocus or image stabilisation, are generally light and compact. I've said it before but I'll say it again, the ancient Zuiko 50mm f1.8 is probably the best lens that I possess, small, light, bought for peanuts, but rivalling expensive Canon L glass. The nerd in me loves to see the unmatched pin sharpness that it achieves right across the frame, while with a f1.8 max aperture, hitting exact manual focus for shooting at f8 is child's play.

 

Earlier this year I sold all my Nikons except my 20mm lens and an old manual 50mm f/1.4 I bought on eBay when I started shooting digital for $40 that has the best bokeh I've ever seen (I even have the original leather case - saw similar ones on eBay for $499).  

 

Bryan, I also have the Zuiko 50mm f/1.8 (from my first SLR - the Olympus OM-1) and it is gorgeous. I bought the adapter to use it on my Olympus wireless and then bought another so I could use it on my Sony - small and light and easy to focus with lovely bokeh. 

 

I didn't keep my heavier Nikon lenses since that seemed to defeat the purpose of switching to mirrorless, but I would have considered the Nikon full frame option if I hadn't just invested in the Sony. I went with the A7rii because I got a great deal saved about $1200. Battery life is awful but otherwise love it.

 

 

Edited by Marianne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

On 31/08/2018 at 18:44, marc said:

 

  Not sure why photographers want to persist with OVF when you can see your exact exposure in the viewfinder and have focus tracking and eye auto focus.  I would never go back to to an OVF camera. 

 

On 31/08/2018 at 21:09, marc said:

What if your mirror locks in your DSLR?   Sony mirrorless full frames are used by pro togs all over the world.  The battery life in the current gen Sonys is better than on the new Nikon Z and will get you though a full day shooting in most cases.       

 

 

That is a very generalised statement and it obviously depends on what you do on a day's shoot. It might get you through but it won't get me through. I can shoot 2000+ images in a day and my D850 is able to do that. I would not readily swap that for a camera that gives me 300 or 700 shots or whatever per battery charge.

 

The times are changing but the DSLR is far from dead yet. There are other areas where mirrorless doesn't do the business e.g. fast autofocus tracking I believe is one area although improving all the time no doubt. The D850 is an unbelievable piece of technology in that and most other respects. Absolutely the most amazing camera I have ever had and I won't be swapping it any time soon.

 

Edited to remove reference to an outdated article.

 

Edited by MDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MDM said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is a very generalised statement and it obviously depends on what you do on a day's shoot. It might get you through but it won't get me through. I can shoot 2000+ images in a day and my D850 is able to do that. I would not readily swap that for a camera that gives me 300 or 700 shots or whatever per battery charge.

 

The times are changing but the DSLR is far from dead yet. There are other areas where mirrorless doesn't do the business e.g. fast autofocus tracking I believe is one area although improving all the time no doubt. The D850 is an unbelievable piece of technology in that and most other respects. Absolutely the most amazing camera I have ever had and I won't be swapping it any time soon.

 

Here is an excellent recent article updated April 2018 on the state of play before the new Nikons were released obviously. 

 

 

I shoot full day events photography with the first gen battery on the Sony in 9 hours days.  My clients have no interest in what camera I use and changing (and carrying) a small battery two or (rarely) three times is 3 mins out of a day’s shooting has no impact on the workflow.  I can shoot 2000 images if I want -  through this would mean hours of time wasted in editing so it's a pointless statistic.       No doubt the D850 is a very good camera, but the notion that it is better than the current gen Sonys, or that it allows you to achieve improved work is misplaced.    There is now nothing a DSLR can do that a DSLM can't and there tangible advantages to a DSLM:   lighter, focus peaking,  zebras, face tracking, eye AF.  I also use my Sony for film making and the new Nikon Z’s are the first to have good video -  whereas nobody would use the D850 as a first choice video camera.  

The autofocus criticism in the article is incorrect for the new generation Sonys,  and the article is  about 2 years out of date as it cites the Sony A6300 which has been replaced by the A6500,  which is also about to updated in the next month or so.    As it turns out, the author is also wrong about the mount size for the Nikon DSLM and – looking at the rumours – the new Canon. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/31/2018 at 14:33, Bryan said:

 

Absolutely, wouldn't go back to optical if you paid me.

 

And of course you can mount scores of old lenses on a mirrorless camera using a suitable adapter. I use old Zeiss, Pentax, and Olympus glass, and have an adapter to take recent Canon EOS lenses - on my Sony. 

 

My only concern is that I fear, in the desire to make these (new crop factor) lenses as small as possible, there is some loss of quality, particularly at the budget end of the spectrum. Older film era lenses are often way better, and, not having autofocus or image stabilisation, are generally light and compact. I've said it before but I'll say it again, the ancient Zuiko 50mm f1.8 is probably the best lens that I possess, small, light, bought for peanuts, but rivalling expensive Canon L glass. The nerd in me loves to see the unmatched pin sharpness that it achieves right across the frame, while with a f1.8 max aperture, hitting exact manual focus for shooting at f8 is child's play.

I have these Fuji lenses.

10-24

18-55

18-135

50-140

100-400

35

52

80mm macro 

All made for mirrorless. Each and every one very sharp.

Betty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, marc said:

I shoot full day events photography with the first gen battery on the Sony in 9 hours days.  My clients have no interest in what camera I use and changing (and carrying) a small battery two or (rarely) three times is 3 mins out of a day’s shooting has no impact on the workflow.  I can shoot 2000 images if I want -  through this would mean hours of time wasted in editing so it's a pointless statistic.       No doubt the D850 is a very good camera, but the notion that it is better than the current gen Sonys, or that it allows you to achieve improved work is misplaced.    There is now nothing a DSLR can do that a DSLM can't and there tangible advantages to a DSLM:   lighter, focus peaking,  zebras, face tracking, eye AF.  I also use my Sony for film making and the new Nikon Z’s are the first to have good video -  whereas nobody would use the D850 as a first choice video camera.  

The autofocus criticism in the article is incorrect for the new generation Sonys,  and the article is  about 2 years out of date as it cites the Sony A6300 which has been replaced by the A6500,  which is also about to updated in the next month or so.    As it turns out, the author is also wrong about the mount size for the Nikon DSLM and – looking at the rumours – the new Canon. 

 

Yes you are right about the article. I only noticed that it was an older article after reread it as I intially took the date of April 2018 as the original publication date. I considered retracting all I wrote and should really have done so as, to be honest, I know very little about mirrorless cameras so can't argue with any personal knowledge or authority. I am happy to admit I was wrong as what I wrote was based on outdated information. It would be really interesting to do an actual test and real life comparison of the Sony a7R III against the D850 in relation to autofocus tracking. 

 

I do know that I won't be changing sysyems as I am too heavily into Nikon to even consider it for a moment. I have currently got no interest in the new Nikon for as several reasons, a major one being the quoted battery life of 300 (I did read that it gets a lot more than this but it is neither here nor there). I read something by Simon Stafford who is probably the leading expert in the country on things Nikon that the new Nikon mirrorless cameras are nowhere in comparison to the D850 in terms of autofocus tracking of fast moving subjects which is an area where the D850 really excels. The lack of a second card slot is a real negative for me. I don't do video so it is not an issue. The weight difference is not an issue either as it is insignficant when there is a heavy lens on board.

 

And I am indeed very happy with the D850. If it is the last great DSLR that Nikon produce, then so be it :)

Edited by MDM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MDM said:

 

 

 

 

 

 I can shoot 2000+ images in a day and my D850 is able to do that.

 

 

 

I am glad I am not the only one who shoots insanely high numbers - I think my record was between 4 and 5 thousand at a youth football tournament (13 pitches 250 teams 8 minutes per half)
I swear I just make work for myself as I tend to take lots of shots just to make sure there is a good one - and have more than one good one.

I am very interested in the mirrorless but I am looking at zero budget for the foreseeable future and am perfectly happy with my D7200 - sure it could be newer or bigger or more advanced but it more than does the job and the biggest weakness at the moment (other than the operator) is lens so any money that does turn up will be spent on decent lenses way before I consider any new body be it full frame or mirrorless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2018 at 17:49, Betty LaRue said:

On mine,  when I look through, What You See is What You Get. So I look, the image looks underexposed, I turn a knob on top of my camera. The exposure immediately looks brighter, and I am assured the RAW exposure will look exactly like what I saw through the viewfinder.

 

 

That's interesting Betty, because that's exactly what I did NOT see during the brief period when I had an X-T1, and was one of the main reasons why I didn't keep it. I believe you now have the X-T2 - is that correct? In which case perhaps I might be able to start looking at Fuji as a possible DSLR replacement again.

 

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Inchiquin said:

 

That's interesting Betty, because that's exactly what I did NOT see during the brief period when I had an X-T1, and was one of the main reasons why I didn't keep it. I believe you now have the X-T2 - is that correct? In which case perhaps I might be able to start looking at Fuji as a possible DSLR replacement again.

 

Alan

 

WYSIWYG works with the XT-1. I have this camera and use the facility constantly. The fastest way to use it (IMHO) is to set the command dial to T, which effectively is manual exposure, and from here you can forget the exposure compensation dial and simply rotate the front dials. Much quicker with lots more available adjustment. The adjustment is clearly visible in the  VF or the LCD. Used in connection with the histogram you really can't ask for more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

I have these Fuji lenses.

All made for mirrorless. Each and every one very sharp.

Betty

 

On 8/28/2018 at 13:11, KevinS said:

Yes, it does. The flange distance (register) for F mount is 46.5mm; 16mm for the new Z mount. The Z mount is so much shorter because there is no mirror box. No change in lens focal length, 50mm will look the same on either camera. 

 

I think Betty has it right about sharp mirrorless lenses. As Kevin S says the flange distance for mirrorless is much shorter.

 

Much shorter flange distance should result in less compromise, and therefore higher quality lenses, when designing wide angle lenses for mirrorless. A wide angle lens for a DSLR is actually a inverted telephoto. That is like looking through the wrong end of a telescope, and leads to all kinds of design compromises. In other words a wide angle 17mm lens for a DSLR cannot be 17mm from the sensor, if the flange distance on a DSLR is around 50mm. Inverted telephoto difficult to do, and expensive.

 

One of my favourite lenses for my 12 megapixel Canon 5D was the 24-105 F4L zoom. However it’s faults became obvious when I moved up to the higher resolution Canon 5D2. So I abandoned the wide angle zoom, and purchased prime wide angles instead.

 

If the new, designed for mirrorless, 24-105 F4L mirrorless zoom on a mirrorless Canon is of much higher quality because of shorter flange distance, then I would move to Canon mirrorless just to get the sharper zoom.

 

For me mirrorless is all about the ability to design higher quality wide angle lenses.

 

Now all they have to do is design a mirrorless camera sensor that can handle a much more oblique ray angle from the mirrorless lens. I think either Canon or Nikon took out a patent on one last year.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.