Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Fake news.

It's contagious.

 

wim

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does US copyright law (even if there's merit in such a ridiculous accusation) apply in the UK? :huh:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's probably wise to take some note of US copyright niceties, but this is an example of a man talking complete bollocks 

 

I'm reminded of the many times I have seen an artist working away with an easel overlooking a scene. The photographer sidles up behind the artist, whips out his camera and snaps the scene. Must be acutely annoying, but I've never seen the artist kick off. 

Edited by Robert M Estall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

copyright is created upon creation, so hmm, can't follow his logic...you can't copyright a scene or an idea....maybe he wishes to patent his ideas of people sitting in the square? ya...that seems more rational. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, funkyworm said:

I recall someone reporting something similar a few years ago somewhere on the South Downs. They were approached by a lady who asserted that it was her Alamy patch.

 

It says something about the persons insecurities about their own work that they have to resort to such. 

 

I am often amazed at how you can be standing next to colleagues and yet still take completely different images. Different lenses, different cameras, and most importantly different eyes and minds. I could be standing next to one of the staffers at the Volkskrant and they'll have a prize winning shot whilst I was busy scratching my nose.

 

An example... Bettina (Vpics) recently popped up for the Gay pride Canal parade. We spent most of the day shooting standing next to each other often pointing out things that the other may have missed. Whilst there are some similars there are a lot more dissimilars. 

Get this at camera club - its a small room and there can be 30 odd photographers trying to shoot the same models in the same poses but very rarely to images look similar - after a bit  of time you can tell which member took which shot without their names on things as you get used to their style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like total BS. Once upon a time, when I did travel writing as well as photography, I used to get invited on group press trips. The van would often pull over at a lookout and everyone would pile out to snap the same view. It was just a given. Some of my copycats have done very well on Alamy. :D

 

P.S. Of course, as funkyworm pointed out above, everyone probably came away with different looking images.

 

 

Edited by John Mitchell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2018 at 11:40, spacecadet said:

Just get on with it. You're a tourist.

Good advice! :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2018 at 13:03, RedSnapper said:

 

 

Yes, that's situation

More often ignored . Really only enforced if , say, you were there with a crew/model/assistants doing a commercial (advertising) shoot....

One person with a camera shooting stock is going to look just like a tourist doing holiday snaps

km

 

OK - but is it worth shooting Live News type events in those places if you have to be accredited? Guessing that newspapers only pick-up photos from accredited photographers when there are restrictions in place re location?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/08/2018 at 10:23, spacecadet said:

Twit.

Did you take a photo of him?;)

That would really have annoyed him.

Indeed.

Though think I might have spelled your first comment somewhat differently ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone remember this incident:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/How-an-incredible-coincidence-sparked-a-Facebook-plagiarism-row

What amazes me is that the accuser said, " "As incredible as it may seem, it looks like Sarah and I shared the same boat while visiting the glaciers in 2006. Once I saw the picture, which looks exactly like mine, I really thought it was the one I took that day - but it seems that she actually was there, right next to me, clicking almost at the same time." 

How could she think it was incredible? There were probably dozens of people crammed together taking almost the same photo at almost the same time, maybe firing away on continuous. Sometimes if I'm in that sort of situation (e.g. on a safari vehicle) I think I maybe shouldn't put 'only on Alamy' as I can't prevent anyone else submitting a near-identical or very similar photo elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jansos said:

OK - but is it worth shooting Live News type events in those places if you have to be accredited? Guessing that newspapers only pick-up photos from accredited photographers when there are restrictions in place re location?

I'm not sure how the newspaper would know if the contributor was accredited. Images would just appear from the various agencies, regardless, wouldn't they?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jansos said:

OK - but is it worth shooting Live News type events in those places if you have to be accredited? Guessing that newspapers only pick-up photos from accredited photographers when there are restrictions in place re location?

If you are in a public place then, as I understand it (and have benefited from), you are just as able to take photos as anyone else. Indeed I have had Alamy Live News contact me to question some photos, but as soon as they were reassured that they were taken in a public spot, all was OK. It’s sometimes worth emailing them to tell them so.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Avpics said:

I'm not sure how the newspaper would know if the contributor was accredited. Images would just appear from the various agencies, regardless, wouldn't they?

That seems perfectly sensible but I was thinking that they may have a list of accredited photographers to help them make an informed decision about which ones to use but it sounds too complicated for the fast pace of live news.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sally said:

If you are in a public place then, as I understand it (and have benefited from), you are just as able to take photos as anyone else. Indeed I have had Alamy Live News contact me to question some photos, but as soon as they were reassured that they were taken in a public spot, all was OK. It’s sometimes worth emailing them to tell them so.

Cheers Sally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe he's with the National Trust...;)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/08/2018 at 12:51, Robert M Estall said:

There are a lot of folk out there with pretty bizarre ideas about copyright. Best just let them dream on. But there have been some nonsense taken seriously; take the monkey copyright uproar. How did that ever get any credibility? And the US sculptor who got a result over his footprint piece! I did once have a German tourist approach me out of a crowd I had been photographing  around Eros in Piccadilly. I just walked away rather than engaging in a conversation about UK copyright and privacy.

 

I think we can let them off, if they are German. I learned at a Street Photography festival recently, that in Germany their privacy laws actually do forbid taking identifiable photos of others without their permission, even in the most public of public spaces. The guy saying so was a German street photographer (masochism or what), so I guess he'd likely be correct.

(Totally off topic but I was really surprised by that, maybe everyone else knows, but worth bearing in mind if you're travelling in Germany!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, KateR said:

 

I think we can let them off, if they are German. I learned at a Street Photography festival recently, that in Germany their privacy laws actually do forbid taking identifiable photos of others without their permission, even in the most public of public spaces. The guy saying so was a German street photographer (masochism or what), so I guess he'd likely be correct.

(Totally off topic but I was really surprised by that, maybe everyone else knows, but worth bearing in mind if you're travelling in Germany!!)

I'm surprised that a German street photographer would be wrong but he is, or rather, he's not quite right.

You can object to publication in Germany but not to the taking and you can't demand deletion. There is an exception for news, incidental inclusion, and events where the subject has chosen to be, such as a rally. KUG s22 and 23.

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/kunsturhg/__22.html

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/kunsturhg/__23.html

I had it pulled on me when cheated by a vendor at a wine fair in Stuttgart. I took her photograph for the tourist police (turns out there aren't any) and a bystander said I had "kein recht". Not so.

As always laymen tend to gold-plate a  regulation when it suits them.

Edited by spacecadet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, spacecadet said:

As always laymen tend to gold-plate a  regulation when it suits them.

 

That's generally the rule with jobsworths anyway: Whether security or employees in general. "Delete that" is a regular taunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, spacecadet said:

I'm surprised that a German street photographer would be wrong but he is, or rather, he's not quite right.

You can object to publication in Germany but not to the taking and you can't demand deletion. There is an exception for news, incidental inclusion, and events where the subject has chosen to be..

Ah, I wonder then whether "publication" would include putting the images on websites, social media etc, in which case for someone looking to use them as part of his art / portfolio, they would be next to useless.  Maybe that's what he meant and the subtleties got lost in translation.

He did definitely talk about a case in which someone in a crowd recognised themselves in an image used online, and successfully sued. Sorry, my inaccuracy :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be surprised that incidental inclusion in a crowd could be sued on. Perhaps there's some more gold-plating as the story gets passed round.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Perhaps the flat surface reminded them of their home in Kansas."

:D:D:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are the odds that 2 Alamy contributors, one from a foreign country, would turn up at Trafalgar square at the same time without prior arrangement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'if I tell you, many people will find out and they'll all want to ask me out for coffee' 

 

Now that sounds to me like Jeff's sense of humor. What fun.

 

Paulette

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BobD said:

What are the odds that 2 Alamy contributors, one from a foreign country, would turn up at Trafalgar square at the same time without prior arrangement.

 

May 2016 Jason Langley took a picture of me outside the Keukenhof Tulip Gardens.

Later that day we took about the same picture somewhere North of Amsterdam, but not at the same time. His is not on Alamy I think.

We did not actually meet. So no coffee. No talk about copyright either.

 

wim

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JeffGreenberg said:
 
 
Who was it?  It was I. 
Anyone viewing LiveNews Aug 15 would have seen: 
 
Leicester Square
London UK, 15 Aug, 2018, While it ranged from cloudy to partly sunny, some managed to find a quiet place in busy Leicester Square. Credit: Jeff Greenberg/Alamy Live News - Stock Image
London UK, 15 Aug, 2018, While it ranged from cloudy to partly sunny, some managed to find a quiet place in busy Leicester Square. Credit: Jeff Greenberg/Alamy Live News - Stock Image
 
Trafalgar Square
London UK, 15 Aug, 2018, While it ranged from cloudy to partly sunny, some managed to find a quiet place in busy Trafalgar Square.  Perhaps the flat surface reminded them of their home in Kansas. Credit: Jeff Greenberg/Alamy Live News - Stock Image
 
Firstly, I applaud any stock shooter standing
their ground & to OP I say, "Well done."
 
Background & facts:
 
Arrived from US only 24 hrs earlier.
One small goal for fun was to submit Live News
Weather one time & was thrilled to find two connected
subjects within minutes, first at Leicester, then Trafalgar,
I thought: "Quiet Spots in Busy Places on a Partly Cloudy Day."
My dismay was instant after I turned when done
to find OP started shooting next to me in that
slightly elevated isolated area with no one else around.
His stance was pro-like & I thought the worse:
someone saw my aim, got "inspired" & my Live News
scoop will be scooped...
 
OP: ...complained to me that I'd infringed his copyright by
apparently taking the same picture as him.

No.  I said, "you (may) have infringed my photo if you've taken same photo."

I also said, "Photos are copyrighted the moment they are taken.'
I failed to say they are therefore protected against copying the moment they are taken.
Those two points are the crux of it.  Authoritative counter-evidence accepted.
Telegraph iceberg case posted above addressed stealing, not camera copying camera.
If two iceberg shots are near identicals, newer may infringe older...?  But I am not lawyer.
 
OP: ...when I asked him who he was he very firmly declined
 
Who wants their real-time travel broadcast worldwide?
Do you want your chances of home break-in increased 100X ??!!
Common sense please.
 
OP: ...can't be sure but don't believe my picture look like his
 
I saw OP's photo & said, "That photo's not like mine, there's no issue."
OP responded vigorously, "No!  This is interesting, let's discuss it further!"
I might have clearly stated two points:
a. photos are copyrighted the moment they are created
b. photos have protection from copying the moment they are created
but I had jet lag & start of a trip-long cold making me dizzy & contagious,
I just wanted to move on...
 
Sidebar:
I realized shortly after moving on that OP's admission that IF two photos
are identical then infringement can be true, but OP said no two photos
can ever be identical for numerous reasons.  OK, what if two photos have
20mp each & are only one pixel off from being identical?  Still impossible?
OK, what if two pixels off?  Three?  Ten?  When does it become possible?
 
I've aimed camera a million times, sometimes others have aimed same way,
sometimes I've aimed same way as others.  This is first time ever I've evoked
infringement -- it was triggered by fear I'd loss my Live News opp.  If I had
do-over, I might have said instead, "I see you like those back-to-back women,
too.  How did you composed image, I might learn something...?"
 
OP: picture got better after that and it made a decent sequence - so his loss.
 
OP didn't get what I got moments later either.  I prefer shoot, move on, shoot, move on...
To the stone-throwing witch-hunting lynch mob in this thread, an Anglophile I remain...
 

 

I guess you don't do press conferences or catwalk work :D

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.