geogphotos

Public Domain - wild west - need for some order?

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Email sent to CR:

 

"I have recently scanned some old engravings from the early 1800s which I bought at an auction. I see some copies already exist of the same images on Alamy - some duplication. 

 
I also see some contributors who are specialising in adding Public Domain content - in one case with over 220,000 images. I can see that this is within the terms of the Alamy contract but are there any limitations? Surely there is a problem if there is too much duplication of the same images simply downloaded from Creative Commons? 
 
Is there anything stopping me or anybody else doing the same? What is Alamy's policy on this? Are there any controls or limits or indeed any guidance?"
 
 
Edited by geogphotos

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No rules, no limits, anybody can play. Probably deterred personally  by the tedium factor. 

 

This is the collection that caught my eye

 

Artokoloro Quint Lox Limited (229,307)

 

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Should Alamy allow any CC content at all?
What's the point?
Will a prospective buyer realise the images are free elsewhere?

 

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Alamy's response to me was that people are free to do what they want with Public Domain images and that therefore they should not restrict access to them being uploaded to Alamy.

 

That response seemed to miss my point about duplication but I decided to let it rest. Alamy's policy is to allow the upload of PD images, and there is no restriction in the contract. 

 

When the search engine updates feel free to click on my pics and you'll see a Van Gogh self-portrait, that famous shot of Isambard Kingdom Brunel, and Dorothea Lange's famous 'Migrant Mother ' portrait. What I need to do now is see if I can get them into the first slot.

 

:D

 

Pics are  there now

Edited by geogphotos

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I used Supertags so I do believe I have been able to gain a higher slot for Vincent than even an Alamy photographer who usually beats me hands down in searches ( I think he has at least 2 of these Vincents).

Edited by geogphotos

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Hate to say it, but it seems to me that allowing people to sell Public Domain images here is an excellent way to lose credibility.

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1 minute ago, John Mitchell said:

Hate to say it, but it seems to me that allowing people to sell Public Domain images here is an excellent way to lose credibility.

There's no way to prevent it in the current system- "out of copyright" isn't in the metadata.

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19 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

Hate to say it, but it seems to me that allowing people to sell Public Domain images here is an excellent way to lose credibility.

 

Just the opposite.

It is more difficult to access public domain images from the original museum source. Being able to quickly search and download a good public domain image from Alamy would be considered a plus by the client, and not cause a loss in credibility.

Public domain images will draw more clients to the Alamy site, and that benefits photographers like you and me.

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1 hour ago, Bill Brooks said:

 

Just the opposite.

It is more difficult to access public domain images from the original museum source. Being able to quickly search and download a good public domain image from Alamy would be considered a plus by the client, and not cause a loss in credibility.

Public domain images will draw more clients to the Alamy site, and that benefits photographers like you and me.

 

Can't speak for museum pics. I'm thinking more of this type of situation, which seems totally ridiculous to me. Is this person really a "stock photographer", or any other type of photographer for that matter.

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10 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Can't speak for museum pics. I'm thinking more of this type of situation, which seems totally ridiculous to me. Is this person really a "stock photographer", or any other type of photographer for that matter.

 

John, That is something entirely different - it looks like image theft.

 

I am referring to legitimate Public Domain images which every stock agency seems to have some of eg) NASA shots of Moon landings, Blue Planet etc, San Francisco earthquake 1906, museum exhibits available for download. Some agencies specialising in history have nothing but old pictures scanned from books and the like.

 

 

 

 

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I wonder if there could be something in the submission process to tick that an image is Public Domain, and that the contributor has checked what is on Alamy and there is no more than, say, 3 identical existing versions? Or something like that?

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9 hours ago, geogphotos said:

 

John, That is something entirely different - it looks like image theft.

 

 

That's what I would call it. Hopefully Alamy is doing something about collections like these. They don't exactly look good for Alamy or us.

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8 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

That's what I would call it. Hopefully Alamy is doing something about collections like these. They don't exactly look good for Alamy or us.

 

But on the other hand there are loads of legitimate genuine Public Domain images out there. I'm certainly going to explore this option. I find it interesting to do the research around the pictures and learn something new, do a bit of dust busting and image corrections, and make these pics available on Alamy.

 

Something to do in the dark days of winter. There is a sense of doing something a bit like cheating but why not?

 

I've scanned around 60 engravings of London from the 1820s - many of the buildings no longer exist.

Edited by geogphotos

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9 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

But on the other hand there are loads of legitimate genuine Public Domain images out there. I'm certainly going to explore this option. I find it interesting to do the research around the pictures and learn something new, do a bit of dust busting and image corrections, and make these pics available on Alamy.

 

Something to do in the dark days of winter. There is a sense of doing something a bit like cheating but why not?

 

I've scanned around 60 engravings of London from the 1820s - many of the buildings no longer exist.

 

Sure. Why not. Methinks that many a successful plot hath been hatched during the dismal days of winter. B)

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I think there is a market for distributing public domain images from various sources. Copy the engravings in the London Illustrated News from 150 years ago, and no museum would object.

 

The museum world is a small group. Part of my business was going into museums on behalf of publishers and photographing artifacts paintings etc. I believed reselling the images as stock would lead to my being blackballed by the museums, and maybe the publishers. I abandoned the idea.

 

But today?

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33 minutes ago, Bill Brooks said:

I think there is a market for distributing public domain images from various sources. Copy the engravings in the London Illustrated News from 150 years ago, and no museum would object.

 

The museum world is a small group. Part of my business was going into museums on behalf of publishers and photographing artifacts paintings etc. I believed reselling the images as stock would lead to my being blackballed by the museums, and maybe the publishers. I abandoned the idea.

 

But today?

 

No need to photograph them since many of the museums offer free downloads of their Public Domain images.

 

https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/SK-A-3262?rts=True

 

But does this make sense?

 

I00009R5VwEibszQ.jpg

Edited by geogphotos

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It is exactly because it is wild west that I would be cautious. Besides, policies and interpretation of rules and laws change. The Rijks being a good example. Whilst covering a red carpet event at the Museum the marketing chap gave me and the other photographers a couple of press tickets with the message that we were welcome to come whenever we wanted to take photos. When I did, I was approached seven times within an hour by security asking what I thought I was doing. Its not as if I had a tripod. I should have worn a Hawaiian shirt, used a compact and replied in my broadest 'ampshire. I left after the seventh time.

 

You only need one bobo to reinterpret the rules and it is a lot of time and effort down the drain.

 

Something else... admittedly I have incorporated some public domain images into my own...

 

Digital Composition Fragile Earth./ Intergalactic Basketball. - Stock Image

 

... and I did start taking photos of works in galleries... but it just didn;t sit right. There is something infinitely more satisfying in selling a piece of work which is your own.

 

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^ No argument with any of that. No chance that I will be stopping doing my own pics

 

This morning I've been scanning old Scottish engravings some as old as 1789  - finding it interesting to do the research.

 

Also sent in my few of Xmas trees on sale at £69 each:unsure:

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1 hour ago, funkyworm said:

It is exactly because it is wild west that I would be cautious. Besides, policies and interpretation of rules and laws change. The Rijks being a good example. Whilst covering a red carpet event at the Museum the marketing chap gave me and the other photographers a couple of press tickets with the message that we were welcome to come whenever we wanted to take photos. When I did, I was approached seven times within an hour by security asking what I thought I was doing. Its not as if I had a tripod. I should have worn a Hawaiian shirt, used a compact and replied in my broadest 'ampshire. I left after the seventh time.

 

You only need one bobo to reinterpret the rules and it is a lot of time and effort down the drain.

 

 

 

 

 

They can change their policy on access and photography within their own museum, but they can't change the laws of copyright. 

 

 

Edited by geogphotos

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Since I started this thread I would like to finish off by saying that I am going to try this Public Domain route as and when I have time.

 

There is a huge resource of historic images out there! If it leads to duplication on Alamy that is hardly my concern though out of common sense I will try to avoid too much of that.

 

Of course I prefer my own pics and will still concentrate on that as much as possible. But I can see the point and potential of what others have already been doing and am enjoying it myself. One contributor has over 2.2 million images to his name!

 

It does feel a bit like 'cheating' but it really isn't.

 

I'm just starting to think that this, my chosen business, is about a variety of image production which includes a whole assortment of image sources and types. I bought a load of old Country Life mags from the  1950s recently full of interesting adverts that I intend to scan.  And still have a pile of old engravings of Wales to do, as well as some interesting online Commons sources to explore.  I have several thousand books at home that I could photograph ( in context). 

 

Me. Image creation machine.;)

 

 

Edited by geogphotos

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