Alamy Affiliate sale

[Cryptoprocta]

31 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

Whether or not individual photographers have the ability to exclude their images in search results visible to someone who has reached Alamy via an affiliate program link will not change this.

Indeed, I was just pointing out that sometimes our images may attract a buyer who then buys something else (maybe not even finding our image of it's a huge search), and we don't get anything for the original 'pull'.

With affiliates, it might not be a sale we wouldn't otherwise have got, it might be a sale we'd have got directly, at 50%, if the affiliate hadn't ranked higher on a search engine (not the only possible scenario).

Edited November 29, 2017 by Cryptoprocta

[Matt Ashmore]

4 minutes ago, Cryptoprocta said:

Indeed, I was just pointing out that sometimes our images may attract a buyer who then buys something else (maybe not even finding our image of it's a hige search), and we don't get anything for the original 'pull'.

 

Reading the blurb about the affiliates scheme, I get the impression that the original pull would be in the form of generic Alamy banners (but I haven't enrolled/tried myself so couldn't say 100% for certain).

[Cryptoprocta]

8 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

Reading the blurb about the affiliates scheme, I get the impression that the original pull would be in the form of generic Alamy banners (but I haven't enrolled/tried myself so couldn't say 100% for certain).

Oh, right, sorry. Your iunderstanding is correct.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Cryptoprocta

[KevinS]

18 hours ago, Allan Bell said:

 

If one of my images is licensed through an affiliate scheme I would still expect to receive the full 50% of the sale price, as per my contract with alamy, as I have not contracted into the affiliate scheme.

 

To clarify I do not have my own website and do not need one so there is no way I could benefit from the affiliate scheme.

 

The affiliate scheme can only benefit those with their own website. To the rest of alamy contributors it is a reduction in income.

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

Exactly. Sorry for my earlier defense of Alamy. Affiliate sales sure look like direct sales to me. The reduction from 50% to 38.5% runs contrary to the contract, I believe. 

[Allan Bell]

5 hours ago, KevinS said:

Exactly. Sorry for my earlier defense of Alamy. Affiliate sales sure look like direct sales to me. The reduction from 50% to 38.5% runs contrary to the contract, I believe. 

 

Exactly.

 

Allan

 

 

[KevinS]

13 hours ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

38.5% of something is better than 50% of nothing in my opinion.. but each to their own.

 

 

But Matt, if Alamy decides to ignore the contract and offer you 10%, would you still say this?

[fotoDogue]

Another way of looking at this is, who does the billing? If the person with the website bills for the photo, which seems highly unlikely, then it's some kind of third party sale.If Alamy does the billing then it's a direct sale. Normally these kind of referral links come under advertising and marketing which is one of Alamy's costs of doing business. Presuming that's the case, it should be deducted from Alamy's share.

[KevinS]

3 hours ago, fotoDogue said:

Another way of looking at this is, who does the billing? If the person with the website bills for the photo, which seems highly unlikely, then it's some kind of third party sale.If Alamy does the billing then it's a direct sale. Normally these kind of referral links come under advertising and marketing which is one of Alamy's costs of doing business. Presuming that's the case, it should be deducted from Alamy's share.

 All the affiliate 'publisher' does is put a link on their website (no billing). Some links include a discount (from the calculator?), some don't. All the links (called 'Creatives') send the visitor to the Alamy home page. 

 

This is definitely marketing, Alamy's responsibility. I contacted Alamy to say adios to Affiliate program, using this address;  marketing@alamy.com

[Matt Ashmore]

21 hours ago, KevinS said:

But Matt, if Alamy decides to ignore the contract and offer you 10%, would you still say this?

 

There would be a choice to make if Alamy reduced contributor percentage to 10% between staying with Alamy and going elsewhere.. micro might at that point become appealing.

[Matt Ashmore]

Just now, KevinS said:

 All the affiliate 'publisher' does is put a link on their website (no billing). Some links include a discount (from the calculator?), some don't. All the links (called 'Creatives') send the visitor to the Alamy home page. 

 

This is definitely marketing, Alamy's responsibility. I contacted Alamy to say adios to Affiliate program, using this address;  marketing@alamy.com

 

Absolutely.. it's marketing.

 

But in terms of who pays.. how is it different to the discounts that a lot of regular customers get? And to the voucher codes that are out there?

It seems to me that the discount is applied and then Alamy and the contributor split what is left 50-50. Here the affiliate fee is applied and then Alamy and the contributor split what is left 50-50... same thing in terms of who shoulders the costs of enticing the sale.

[fotoDogue]

34 minutes ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

Absolutely.. it's marketing.

 

But in terms of who pays.. how is it different to the discounts that a lot of regular customers get? And to the voucher codes that are out there?

It seems to me that the discount is applied and then Alamy and the contributor split what is left 50-50. Here the affiliate fee is applied and then Alamy and the contributor split what is left 50-50... same thing in terms of who shoulders the costs of enticing the sale.

 

It's all in the math. When Alamy makes a discounted sale, what they received is split 50/50 as stated in the contract. With an Affiliate Sale 23% of what Alamy receives is taken off the top and the remainder is split 50/50. 

[KevinS]

When this was first rolled out, Alamy stated this;

 

Here's how the commission structure works:

If an image sells for $100, you, the publisher, make $20... and of course, we alwayspay our photographers 50%.

If you're an Alamy photographer with your own website, then this could be a great additional revenue stream for you!

 

Now they've changed the split so the photographer gets 38.5% of the amount collected, which is less than the 50% in the Contributor contract.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by KevinS

[Number Six]

Well, I've just had my first 'Affiliate Sale' for a nice (for these days) three figure gross sum. Sure I'd have preferred it to have been a Direct Sale at 50% commission but, at 38.5%, it's obviously better than a 30% Distributor Sale. Moreover, as far as I can tell, it's a sale that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

Overall, I suspect it depends whether you're a 'my glass is half full' or a 'my glass is half empty' sort of person. I'm definitely the former and my thanks to Alamy for this new initiative. 

[Matt Ashmore]

9 hours ago, KevinS said:

When this was first rolled out, Alamy stated this;

 

Here's how the commission structure works:

If an image sells for $100, you, the publisher, make $20... and of course, we alwayspay our photographers 50%.

If you're an Alamy photographer with your own website, then this could be a great additional revenue stream for you!

 

Now they've changed the split so the photographer gets 38.5% of the amount collected, which is less than the 50% in the Contributor contract.

 

 

 

This is what it currently says:

 

If an image sells for $100, you, the publisher, make $20 and then we split our share equally with the photographer.

If you're an Alamy photographer with your own website, then this could be a great additional revenue stream for you!

 

Taken from:

http://www.alamy.com/customer/help/affiliate-program.aspx

[Matt Ashmore]

20 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Well, I've just had my first 'Affiliate Sale' for a nice (for these days) three figure gross sum. Sure I'd have preferred it to have been a Direct Sale at 50% commission but, at 38.5%, it's obviously better than a 30% Distributor Sale. Moreover, as far as I can tell, it's a sale that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

Overall, I suspect it depends whether you're a 'my glass is half full' or a 'my glass is half empty' sort of person. I'm definitely the former and my thanks to Alamy for this new initiative. 

 

Yes, this is how I see it too.

[CM photo]

The 38.5% figure is due to the 3% that goes to Rakuten, which is taken from the Alamy/photographer's slice of the pie.  Alamy and the photographer get 38.5% each.

Edited December 1, 2017 by CM photo

[Matt Ashmore]

36 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Well, I've just had my first 'Affiliate Sale' for a nice (for these days) three figure gross sum. Sure I'd have preferred it to have been a Direct Sale at 50% commission but, at 38.5%, it's obviously better than a 30% Distributor Sale. Moreover, as far as I can tell, it's a sale that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

Overall, I suspect it depends whether you're a 'my glass is half full' or a 'my glass is half empty' sort of person. I'm definitely the former and my thanks to Alamy for this new initiative. 

 

Out of interest.. did it show as being zoomed and sold on the same day?

[KevinS]

2 hours ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

This is what it currently says:

 

If an image sells for $100, you, the publisher, make $20 and then we split our share equally with the photographer.

If you're an Alamy photographer with your own website, then this could be a great additional revenue stream for you!

 

Taken from:

http://www.alamy.com/customer/help/affiliate-program.aspx

Matt,  Thank you for posting the same link I posted near the beginning of this thread. My only point, which I guess I am unable to convey, is that these are direct sales and should fall under the terms of the current contract. Many folks here seem fine with letting Alamy stray from the contract. Or am I missing something new in the contract?

[KevinS]

15 hours ago, Matt Ashmore said:

 

Absolutely.. it's marketing.

 

But in terms of who pays.. how is it different to the discounts that a lot of regular customers get? And to the voucher codes that are out there?

It seems to me that the discount is applied and then Alamy and the contributor split what is left 50-50. Here the affiliate fee is applied and then Alamy and the contributor split what is left 50-50... same thing in terms of who shoulders the costs of enticing the sale.

It's different because Alamy is not splitting 50-50 the amount they received for affiliate sales. 

[Matt Ashmore]

1 hour ago, KevinS said:

It's different because Alamy is not splitting 50-50 the amount they received for affiliate sales. 

 

The contract (http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp?utm_campaign=738688_Contract change April 2017&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy Contributors &dm_i=2SWW,FTZ4,12IGLU,1MXMO,1) states:

 

12. Statements and payment

12.1 For the purposes of this clause;

12.1.1 'Net Revenue' means the gross income derived from the exploitation of the rights, less:

12.1.1.1 Alamy Commission, as set out in the Alamy Commission Table that You authorise Alamy to deduct and retain.

12.1.1.2 Any amounts deducted by sub agents or licensees including but not limited to Distributors (if applicable) and Affiliates.

12.1.1.3 Sales Tax (if applicable)

So the way I understand this, is that they are complying with clause 12.1.1.2 here.

This was added as an amendment to the contract on the 26th April and is explicitly called out here:

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.asp?utm_campaign=738688_Contract change April 2017&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alamy Contributors &dm_i=2SWW,FTZ4,12IGLU,1MXMO,1

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Matt Ashmore

[KevinS]

Matt, I agree with you. I hadn't read this when it came out; thanks for posting. Because the sale occurs at alamy.com, this still doesn't square with what they say at the top of your link, and I realize the actual contract is all that matters;

 

The Small print in Larger Print (All the legal wording written in Plain English)

• We will pay you 50% of a direct sale made by Alamy

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by KevinS

[Number Six]

Hi Matt - sorry for the delay.

 

No, the image was not zoomed on the same day as the sale (nor in any time period that I would associate with this sale).

 

Best regards

 

John

 

 

[Number Six]

And I've just had another look, and my Affiliate sale discussed above has now been changed to a Distributor sale. Perhaps I should have kept quiet!

[John Richmond]

Deleted

Edited December 2, 2017 by John Richmond
Incorrect information

[KevinS]

Looking at how Alamy calculates "Net Revenue",

 

The contract specifies a 50% deduction for Alamy’s commission. In the affiliate sale that started this thread, Alamy takes 38.5%, which is different (I know it’s smaller). It's not certain that Rakuten is “a website that promotes offers and promotions in return for a commission” (per contract). I think that refers to the publishing affiliate. If it does, the 3% should be paid from Alamy’s side, the same way they pay salaries, rent, advertising and so forth. Alamy should take the 50% specified (and pay Rakuten); the 20% affiliate fee should be deducted, as stated in the contract; leaving 30% for the photographer. This is just my take on the contract; I welcome yours. Obviously, IANAL.

 

 “We will pay you 50% of a direct sale made by Alamy” -Contributors Home Page
This is misleading to anyone contemplating joining Alamy, and should be changed.

Edited December 30, 2017 by KevinS