KODAKovic

RM vs RF usage...again!

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There is nothing as devout as a recent convert who has found the faith and true cause.

 

I'm a born again stock photographer - hallelujah!

 

Yardenit Baptismal Site, near Bet Yerah, Israel, Stock Photo

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29 minutes ago, Brasilnut said:

 

I'm a born again stock photographer - hallelujah!

 

Yardenit Baptismal Site, near Bet Yerah, Israel, Stock Photo

 

I thought that you had been converted to RM editorial for Alamy and leaving RF micro behind. I guess you have lapsed a little ;)

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I thought that you had been converted to RM editorial for Alamy and leaving RF micro behind. I guess you have lapsed a little ;)

 

Yes, 95% of my editorials will go on here and not duplicated on micros. About 50% of them will be RF or RM. Some are quite generic and don't merit RM imo but respect those who choose to only license RM. 

 

Frustrating though, since I haven't had any sales this month after an encouraging Sept. 

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10 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Like one RF I just licensed,  IQ $250. The highest of 8 sales.

RM $11.74

RF $50.72

RM $80

RM $12.62

RM $119

RF $250

RM 50

RM $44.91

 

Betty, just a question about your RF sales: do you think they could sell for cents on micro?

I'm asking 'cause at the beginning of my Alamy experience i doubled my port on Alamy and some other micro agencies and i noticed some images have been downloaded for .25$ there and for 50$ here. 

I simply struggle nowadays with this customers behaviour: how is it possible to pay the same image 100 times more ???

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What I really don't like about RF, apart from the unlimited use issues, is the £255.00 ceiling for the maximum size download.  I have sold RM images for 4 figures which weren't particularly special or unique so why would I want to put a ceiling on potential sales? If a buyer wants an exclusive license, which may bring in a high fee, they would not choose RF.

 

Pearl

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2 minutes ago, Pearl said:

What I really don't like about RF, apart from the unlimited use issues, is the £255.00 ceiling for the maximum size download.  I have sold RM images for 4 figures which weren't particularly special or unique so why would I want to put a ceiling on potential sales? If a buyer wants an exclusive license, which may bring in a high fee, they would not choose RF.

 

Pearl

 

I agree with you Pearl

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26 minutes ago, Brasilnut said:

 

Yes, 95% of my editorials will go on here and not duplicated on micros. About 50% of them will be RF or RM. Some are quite generic and don't merit RM imo but respect those who choose to only license RM. 

 

Frustrating though, since I haven't had any sales this month after an encouraging Sept. 

 

Feeling the same Nut, but have 2 zooms today... :) finger crossed

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1 hour ago, KODAKovic said:

 

Betty, just a question about your RF sales: do you think they could sell for cents on micro?

I'm asking 'cause at the beginning of my Alamy experience i doubled my port on Alamy and some other micro agencies and i noticed some images have been downloaded for .25$ there and for 50$ here. 

I simply struggle nowadays with this customers behaviour: how is it possible to pay the same image 100 times more ???

Sorry, I don’t have the slightest idea about how they would sell on micros. I would, in any case never offer the same image at both agencies. I’ll commit suicide some other way, thankyouverymuch. :P

Betty

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Forgive my ignorance, but if a photo is sold as RM, with all the exclusivity this infers, doesn't it then mean that image is no longer available for sale to other potential buyers?  

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You can sell an RM image over and over unless the buyer requests exclusitivity for a term, or even in a particular industry. In 10 years, I’ve never had a request for that. 

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12 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

You can sell an RM image over and over unless the buyer requests exclusitivity for a term, or even in a particular industry. In 10 years, I’ve never had a request for that. 

The four figure sales I refer to above are restricted now for that particular use for a period of time but can be sold for other uses during that time frame.  In other words the buyers wanted exclusivity for those uses.

 

Pearl

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Betty, just a question about your RF sales: do you think they could sell for cents on micro?

I'm asking 'cause at the beginning of my Alamy experience i doubled my port on Alamy and some other micro agencies and i noticed some images have been downloaded for .25$ there and for 50$ here. 

I simply struggle nowadays with this customers behaviour: how is it possible to pay the same image 100 times more ???

 

The reasoning is that if images are duplicated between here and micros, buyers would purchase it cheaper on micros...especially if they have a monthly subscription package. There's no real evidence to suggest that buyers search elsewhere, although in theory it does make sense to shop around (we all do for airline tickets so why not image licensing).

 

I had a strange episode today. The following image was zoomed today on here:

 

Industrial greenhouse with colourful flowers in the Netherlands Stock Photo

 

Then, it was purchased a sub on a well known micro site. Now, this is an image that is a few years' old and doesn't get many downloads anymore on micros so it's suspicious. Will I pull it off micros, nah, but I'm cautious on new stuff I try to duplicate, especially editorials.

Edited by Brasilnut

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32 minutes ago, Brasilnut said:

 

The reasoning is that if images are duplicated between here and micros, buyers would purchase it cheaper on micros...especially if they have a monthly subscription package. There's no real evidence to suggest that buyers search elsewhere, although in theory it does make sense to shop around (we all do for airline tickets so why not image licensing).

 

I had a strange episode today. The following image was zoomed today on here:

 

Industrial greenhouse with colourful flowers in the Netherlands Stock Photo

 

Then, it was purchased a sub on a well known micro site. Now, this is an image that is a few years' old and doesn't get many downloads anymore on micros so it's suspicious. Will I pull it off micros, nah, but I'm cautious on new stuff I try to duplicate, especially editorials.

 

Yeah.. in Google Chome, if I right-click on the above image and select 'Search Google for Image', I do find the image on the well known micro site within seconds.

Some buyers (maybe the one who bought your image) will be clever enough to do this.. others won't. It also depends on how they want to use the image and how many 'print runs' they require.

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I came to Alamy from micros where I get sales of mostly editorials.  I have editorial images that sold both on micros for pennies and here for a lot more.

The only explanation for this that I have is that the customers of Alamy's that did this do not have accounts anywhere else and are not interested in widening their horizons.

 

I'm considering changing the distribution of my editorial images going forward given that Oct 17 is the first month when my Alamy sales are ahead of the micros.

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7 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

 

Yes, 95% of my editorials will go on here and not duplicated on micros. About 50% of them will be RF or RM. Some are quite generic and don't merit RM imo but respect those who choose to only license RM. 

 

Frustrating though, since I haven't had any sales this month after an encouraging Sept. 

 

So you don't actually follow your own advice ( see above) about what should be RF and what should be RM.

 

Not sure why you are advising newbies to put everything as RF when you aren't doing so. 

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So you don't actually follow your own advice ( see above) about what should be RF and what should be RM.

 

Not sure why you are advising newbies to put everything as RF when you aren't doing so. 

 

Since going exclusive with Alamy for most editorials, I admit that I put them more as RM than as per the criteria. 

 

A Nigerian refugee poses for a photo in Milan, Italy. His  nickname is "Elvis". Europe is undergroing a refugee Stock Photo

 

This one is RM since it's a "unique story". I had to approach him on street and build rapport, then ask if I could take his pic. He was friendly enough but most others refused (even if I offered some payment).

 

Not advising anybody, everybody is free to have their own systems. In fact, I'm not even sure mine works on here as I've only had 24 sales so far...just a nice discussion.

 

You get way more sales with a portfolio that is 17x larger. Therefore, you're much more of an authority on the subject than I am. 

 

I hope we can go out for a pint one day and have a nice chat :) 

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I thought I'd have a dabble with RF to see how it goes, so I've now got about 7% of my portfolio available as RF. I can see why image buyers might prefer to pay more for the RF licence (rather than the RM licence) where they expect to use the image multiple times. But if it's for a one off use why would the buyer pay the HIGHER cost for an RF licence? Well that's how I understood the RF licence would work - higher licence fee than RM for unlimited uses ........ Maybe mine was an exception? Will be keeping a close eye on how my pilot progresses before jumping in much deeper with RF.

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The fact everyone here has his/her own opinion about the usage of RM/RF makes me think this confusion gives only benefits to the Agencies.

I believe this model of RM/RF should be completely changed asap: may i suggest a new thing called "RC" (Royalty Custom) where the price takes in account how many search results have been displayed for the content and in which position that was in the query?

For i.e. for a download of "Paris Tour Eiffel" one should pay only .25$ for an image in the first pages while let's say 5$ for pictures foundable between page #5-100 (just an example). That because "Paris Tour Eiffel" is a very popular query and contributors cannot expect too much money from these sales.

For a download of a niche subject the sale could start from 70$ to unlimited depending of the "RM" factors such as time period / nr. of print copies and so on.

I know, it's late and i'm tired... but the thing i'm really tired is the confusion about RM/RF. No one is really sure when to use one or another.

We need something from scratch 

Edited by KODAKovic

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27 minutes ago, KODAKovic said:

I know, it's late and i'm tired... but the thing i'm really tired is the confusion about RM/RF. No one is really sure when to use one or another.

 

You too can become unconfused with Doctor Brooks’ big injection of only RF, or RF editorial only.

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9 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

 

You too can become unconfused with Doctor Brooks’ big injection of only RF, or RF editorial only.

 

Not only the faith of the recent convert but also the miracle cures.:D

Edited by geogphotos

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10 hours ago, KODAKovic said:

The fact everyone here has his/her own opinion about the usage of RM/RF makes me think this confusion gives only benefits to the Agencies.

I believe this model of RM/RF should be completely changed asap: may i suggest a new thing called "RC" (Royalty Custom) where the price takes in account how many search results have been displayed for the content and in which position that was in the query?

For i.e. for a download of "Paris Tour Eiffel" one should pay only .25$ for an image in the first pages while let's say 5$ for pictures foundable between page #5-100 (just an example). That because "Paris Tour Eiffel" is a very popular query and contributors cannot expect too much money from these sales.

For a download of a niche subject the sale could start from 70$ to unlimited depending of the "RM" factors such as time period / nr. of print copies and so on.

I know, it's late and i'm tired... but the thing i'm really tired is the confusion about RM/RF. No one is really sure when to use one or another.

We need something from scratch 

 

 

I agree. It is time to get rid of this increasingly meaningless distinction. 

 

Offer images for sale, find out what use/s the buyer wants, and negotiate a deal. 

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10 hours ago, Bill Brooks said:

 

You too can become unconfused with Doctor Brooks’ big injection of only RF, or RF editorial only.

 

Bill,

i'm gonna inject some RFs here too to see if i properly understood the differences.

At the moment, i agree with many saying RM is the real reason why they stitch with Alamy after a decade.

Edited by KODAKovic

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I am struggling towards an understanding of the underlying principle which, so far, goes something like this. 

If a buyer is looking for a photo of something very well covered, for example, the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam, for editorial use, and has a choice between an RM image and an RF image, there is no reason for them to buy the more expensive RM option, if either image (and with such a popular subject for photographers there will be a large variety to choose from) suits their purpose. So all images of the museum might as well be RF. 

For a unique event, that only a few people may have been able to get to, for example the 2015 Boxing Day floods in Hebden Bridge,  you would be justified in applying the RM option. 

However, a recurring news event, e.g. Notting hill carnival, would probably be better RF since many images will be available.

Any 'unique to me' images, e.g. if I set up a shoot with an unknown model, or happen across a particularly ugly dog, merits an RM license. 

 

So - 

1) any one off event that you happen to be in the middle of and not many others will be suits the RM option.

2) any generic image might as well be RF.

3) An absolutely 'unique to me' image should only ever be RM.

4) a recurring news event, e.g. Notting Hill carnival, is probably best RF 

 

Are these workable principles?

 

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5 minutes ago, Graham Hardy said:

I am struggling towards an understanding of the underlying principle which, so far, goes something like this. 

If a buyer is looking for a photo of something very well covered, for example, the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam, for editorial use, and has a choice between an RM image and an RF image, there is no reason for them to buy the more expensive RM option, if either image (and with such a popular subject for photographers there will be a large variety to choose from) suits their purpose. So all images of the museum might as well be RF. 

For a unique event, that only a few people may have been able to get to, for example the 2015 Boxing Day floods in Hebden Bridge,  you would be justified in applying the RM option. 

However, a recurring news event, e.g. Notting hill carnival, would probably be better RF since many images will be available.

Any 'unique to me' images, e.g. if I set up a shoot with an unknown model, or happen across a particularly ugly dog, merits an RM license. 

 

So - 

1) any one off event that you happen to be in the middle of and not many others will be suits the RM option.

2) any generic image might as well be RF.

3) An absolutely 'unique to me' image should only ever be RM.

4) a recurring news event, e.g. Notting Hill carnival, is probably best RF 

 

Are these workable principles?

 

 

Graham, you're basically saying something similar i suggested: take in account "popularity" (common subjects, uniqueness, # of search results in a query) for the final price.

None of the contributors (or agencies for what concerns) know before how much a customer is ready to pay for an image. RM/RF this way limits what we could gain from a sale.

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