Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 From 1st September 2014 Network Rail became a public sector company, answerable to Parliament. I think I might write a letter to my MP about unreasonable restrictions on trade and Network Rail's attempt to create a monopoly in photography IPR at stations that they control. Would be a very good idea, but... the government is planning to sell NR back to the private sector as soon as it can so any victory would be short-lived anyway Alan From a commercial perspective, I should just let my 7 images go and move on to something else. But for me it's also about the principle - perhaps a dangerous thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Me too. 7 of mine removed. Interestingly, I came across this on the Network Rail / National Rail website: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/55286.aspx I won't be contributing. The T&Cs on that page also state: "Any copyright owned by you will remain with you and this permission is not exclusive, so you can continue to use the material you contribute in any way including allowing others to use it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Baker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Me too. And I had permission to shoot some of the deleted material from a shoot at London Bridge for a book project. I'd paid a £200 fee and signed a waiver although, so far I haven't located my copy to check the wording. It's probably not worth turning my office upside down to find it but I do wish I'd been asked beforehand, rather than immediately kowtowing to the letter from Network Rail. Another picture was a blurred landscape of anonymous commuters zooming across the concourse at Liverpool Street (see below). If I hadn't placed it there, its location would never have been an issue. http://richardbaker.photoshelter.com/image/I0000zKylaVJURng The same happened some years ago with a picture of an elderly patient on her hospital bed which had sold many times on Alamy. Also on that occasion I had permission, having been accompanied by a press officer who obtained signatures for me as we toured the wards. Apparently, the family of the lady objected - despite her giving own permission - and so the picture was deleted and I'll bet those releases were archived and are now deep in a storage bunker. Rgds, Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Gallery Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Remember the over run on works in January 2015 that caused such problems in London that got the CEO of network rail in front of a select committee of very annoyed MPs. Its is more about suppressing of the legitimate reporting of matters of public interest and erasing the photographic evidence from the record. If you want to write to your MP and complain I suggest you use these points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Walker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Two of mine removed - St Pancras. Eurostar trains from the concourse where the 'Meeting Place' (?) statue is. I took the photos from above my head and over the barrier so it might look like I was actually on the Eurostar platform. On as RM and no PL. It'll be airports next and images of planes etc. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Does anybody know under what byelaws Network Rail are doing this? (Similar question to that relating to the National Trust). It can't be a contractual restriction (like say when you buy a ticket for a sporting event or concert) because some of my photos were taken from a position where I didn't need to have bought a ticket. Alamy aren't going to fight that point for us. It is more about the terms and conditions of entry to the station. You're not bound by them unless they're fair and prominently displayed, but NR can't be bothered to police that so they just get rid of the "problem" further downstream, i.e. us. I've asked for my keywords back. They certainly don't belong to NR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I see that the Alamy front page has an image today titled "Train passengers wave goodbye to friends and family" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Douglas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Does anybody know under what byelaws Network Rail are doing this? (Similar question to that relating to the National Trust). It can't be a contractual restriction (like say when you buy a ticket for a sporting event or concert) because some of my photos were taken from a position where I didn't need to have bought a ticket. Alamy aren't going to fight that point for us. It is more about the terms and conditions of entry to the station. You're not bound by them unless they're fair and prominently displayed, but NR can't be bothered to police that so they just get rid of the "problem" further downstream, i.e. us. I've asked for my keywords back. They certainly don't belong to NR. True. The fact that Alamy have taken the action that they have would suggest that they have looked at it and have decided not to resist Network Rail. But it would be handy to know the facts just in case I find myself selling a photo taken at one of those stations through some other outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I see that the Alamy front page has an image today titled "Train passengers wave goodbye to friends and family" That's us waving goodbye to another image source. Alamy are certainly taking the line of least resistance but then they're nor our lawyers and they did see through Barclays' strongarming a while back But that was about pix taken from the street. There's n0 arguing about pix indisputably taken inside these stations. Speaking of which, I'm not sure my danger sign was taken there, or that it wasn't taken through a window from the street. It's certainly not identifiable, and they only found it from the caption. Sometimes it would pay not to be too comprehensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ramsay Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 12000 images keyworded 'Network Rail'- someone's going to be busy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyAppleRed Images Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Great, so if and when my latest batch go through QC do I save myself the trouble of keywording and just delete the three shots I took of railway pedestrian crossing warnings yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You can film/shoot attheir locations... they just want a fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I wonder if Network Rail will also try to clamp down on News images of the Queen, Politicians, Celebs, etc. arriving at/departing from rail stations too. Or perhaps they're planning their own news agency .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You can film/shoot attheir locations... they just want a fee. ...which would be fine if the returns were only worth it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Great, so if and when my latest batch go through QC do I save myself the trouble of keywording and just delete the three shots I took of railway pedestrian crossing warnings yesterday? Don't delete them, just change the keywords if there's a reference to a NR station. If it's from the highway, no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelal Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 As I have a particular interest in railways and railway architecture I have a fair number of station pictures. Not so many now though as I have had 105 removed. Seems to be big stations, Kings X, St Pancras, Victoria amongst them. The smaller, more rural stations seemed to have survived - so far. Not happy about this. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I wonder if Network Rail will also try to clamp down on News images of the Queen, Politicians, Celebs, etc. arriving at/departing from rail stations too. Or perhaps they're planning their own news agency .. Those very thoughts had occurred to me too. What about the togs who had passes issued by agencies (including Alamy) to attend official openings? No doubt that NR were more than happy with the +ive publicity at the time, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 The Network Rail operated stations are: Birmingham New Street Cannon Street Bristol Temple Meads Charing Cross Edinburgh Waverley Euston Glasgow Central King's Cross Leeds London Bridge Liverpool Lime Street Liverpool Street Manchester Piccadilly Paddington Reading St Pancras International Victoria Waterloo So presumably this particular cull only affects photos taken at those stations. Given two or three surprising searches recently, I'm going to be reviewing my zooms with a little more cynicism in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Export Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 As I have a particular interest in railways and railway architecture I have a fair number of station pictures. Not so many now though as I have had 105 removed. Seems to be big stations, Kings X, St Pancras, Victoria amongst them. The smaller, more rural stations seemed to have survived - so far. Not happy about this. Patrick network rail only manage the main stations - as Keith listed smaller and rural stations are managed by the train operating companies - so network rail cannot insist on those images being removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreign Export Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 of course many overseas based agencies have images of network rail managed stations on their websites - haven't noticed any images being taken down from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I wonder if it's NR being fattened up for privatisation by pretending to have lots of proprietary IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyAppleRed Images Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Great, so if and when my latest batch go through QC do I save myself the trouble of keywording and just delete the three shots I took of railway pedestrian crossing warnings yesterday? Don't delete them, just change the keywords if there's a reference to a NR station. If it's from the highway, no issue. Not near enough a station to keyword it as such but two were inside the gates of the crossing. Oh well, may as well stick them on there and hope for the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Baker Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 It's also significant that some of mine were captioned with the words strike, industrial and action. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelal Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Although they manage 18 of the biggest stations I believe the actually own all 2500 stations, most of which are managed by the operating companies. I have had shots of Eastbourne and Norwich removed, two stations not directly managed by NR .Am I right that if you photograph a station from a public road and the pictures are marked editorial only, there can be no objection? Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert M Estall Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Network Rail's site advises what you can and what you should not do. Not using flash OK I get that, not setting up tripods on platforms obstructing passengers, OK I get that. Then they say you can not sell photographs. Strictly speaking, we are not selling photographs, we are selling licenses to reproduce. If you want to play pedantic, let's play! They have given train spotters the nod. But claiming Intellectual Property rights on the whole interior of a big station? What nonsense! That's an entirely different matter. I've only had 3 images pulled, but I have sold at least once. No great loss, but I really don't like it. It would probably cost Alamy a fair wedge to defend, but I find it hard to imagine Network Rail would win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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