Ed Rooney

Personal Use?

124 posts in this topic

Thanks for that.

It's for Presentation & Newsletters. But it just says Worldwide, not the country. Same price as PU.

Betty

 

Doesn't the last column 'Region' show the country Betty?

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Thanks for that.

It's for Presentation & Newsletters. But it just says Worldwide, not the country. Same price as PU.

Betty

 

 

Doesn't the last column 'Region' show the country Betty?

Yes! I didn't see it at first because I'm on my iPad and didn't scroll sideways. I was shocked at all I didn't see, lol.

Betty

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Thanks for that.

It's for Presentation & Newsletters. But it just says Worldwide, not the country. Same price as PU.

Betty

 

Doesn't the last column 'Region' show the country Betty?

Yes! I didn't see it at first because I'm on my iPad and didn't scroll sideways. I was shocked at all I didn't see, lol.

Betty

 

 

No worries. I love my iPad to bits but sometimes its use is tricky. Sometimes I'm even mad at it!

 

Gen

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I'd wondered if you could see your download on the iPad. I've tried on mine. I get the headers, but not the figures.

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I'd wondered if you could see your download on the iPad. I've tried on mine. I get the headers, but not the figures.

 

Hi Cecile. Do you mean uploads? My submissions? I can see the images if I scroll down. There is a big blank space opposite the submission numbers for some reason.

 

Gen

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Just in. Somebody bought my image of a FedEx building exterior for cards, wall, etc. non-commercial, of course. ;) should make a lovely wall print.

Betty

You'd be surprised at just how many posters of FedEx buildings and vans I have on my walls...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Er, none lol. :D

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Here is a legitimate $19.99 use for shots of store signage that you may have not have considered.

 
I had an assignment by oil company A to go to 5 of their locations in Toronto and photograph their gas stations showing their signage. Signage that varied slightly between stations, the way a motorist would see the signage from the road as they approached the station.
 
The second part was to drive around Toronto and photograph other  oil companies signage in the same way. I was to spend a day on the assignment and get as many gas stations from as many different oil companies with as much varying signage as possible.
 
My client, Oil company A was going to redesign their signage and needed a slide show for their first design meeting
 
I was paid my day rate plus costs. That price, considering the volume produced, worked out to a lot less than $19.99 per slide 
Maybe the above is one reason for buying images of retail signs at $10 or $20
 
Anyway, retail signs are worth producing, and Alamy will get a higher price if they can.
 
Here is a shot from this months sales. Editorial RF $95.00
 
walmart-sign-at-the-scarborough-town-cen
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Bill, what would you think if someone licensed your Walmart image above for personal use. Would you be convinced that it was for legit reasons? Just curious...

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Here is a legitimate $19.99 use for shots of store signage that you may have not have considered.

 
I had an assignment by oil company A to go to 5 of their locations in Toronto and photograph their gas stations showing their signage. Signage that varied slightly between stations, the way a motorist would see the signage from the road as they approached the station.
 
The second part was to drive around Toronto and photograph other  oil companies signage in the same way. I was to spend a day on the assignment and get as many gas stations from as many different oil companies with as much varying signage as possible.
 
My client, Oil company A was going to redesign their signage and needed a slide show for their first design meeting
 
I was paid my day rate plus costs. That price, considering the volume produced, worked out to a lot less than $19.99 per slide 
Maybe the above is one reason for buying images of retail signs at $10 or $20
 
Anyway, retail signs are worth producing, and Alamy will get a higher price if they can.
 
Here is a shot from this months sales. Editorial RF $95.00
 
walmart-sign-at-the-scarborough-town-cen

 

 

 

A suggestion Bill.

 

Take out the "M" then put in another "l" close to "Wal".

 

You will have a fun image. :)

 

Allan

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Just in. Somebody bought my image of a FedEx building exterior for cards, wall, etc. non-commercial, of course. ;) should make a lovely wall print.

Betty

 

You'd be surprised at just how many posters of FedEx buildings and vans I have on my walls...

 :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Er, none lol. :D

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Bill, what would you think if someone licensed your Walmart image above for personal use. Would you be convinced that it was for legit reasons? Just curious...

 

 

Legit reasons for personal use do not concern me, and it should not concern photographers. I try to be a positive person. I try to not focus on the negative.

 
If someone licensed my Walmart image for personal use at $19.99 I would give them the benefit of any doubt, and move on while pocketing the $10. In the overall scheme of things, it is a waste of time and energy to worry about the price or legitimacy of Personal Use. 
 
I think about my annual sales total. I think about making great images.
 
One of the things I have noticed about Stock Photo Libraries who appear to cater to photographer’s dreams with high prices, RM forever, a credit for every use, every copyright abuse into court, we will personally answer your phone call and talk for hours about matters that concern you, etc is that they often restructure without paying the photographers, or they do not make any sales. Any competent stock photo library cannot leave pricing up to their photographers. If the particular stock photo library pricing overall does not fit the stock photographer’s business plan, then the the stock photographer should move on. 
 
A certain amount of being ripped off, comes with being successful. The more successful you are, the more often you will be ripped off. The equivalent of opting out of Personal Use at Alamy would be for successful Walmart to close some of it’s stores, because some people steal merchandise.
 
So to answer your question. Legit reasons for Personal Use? Not worth your concern or mine.
 
Allen Bell: Good idea but probably get sued by WaLLmart for messing with their logo.
 
Here is a $19.99 Personal Use greeting card sale this month. Was one of a series, produced inside on a cold January day, and took about 10 minutes of my time in photoshop. I couldn’t care less if Personal Use is legit or not.
 
photo-illustration-concept-of-being-on-c
 
 
 
Rest of cloud series here mid page:
 
http://www.alamy.com/search/imageresults.aspx?&xstx=0&userid=%7BF0453AA0-D41A-421F-B4D6-F125791B632D%7D&name=bill%2Dbrooks&st=12&ps=100&pn=6&cbstore=0#BHM=foo%3Dbar%26st%3D12%26sortby%3D2%26qt%3D%26qt_raw%3D%26qn%3D%26lic%3D3%26mr%3D0%26pr%3D0%26aoa%3D1%26creative%3D%26videos%3D%26nu%3D%26ccc%3D%26bespoke%3D%26apalib%3D%26ag%3D0%26hc%3D0%26et%3D0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3D0%26loc%3D0%26ot%3D0%26imgt%3D0%26dtfr%3D%26dtto%3D%26size%3D0xFF%26blackwhite%3D%26cutout%3D%26archive%3D1%26name%3Dbill-brooks%26groupid%3D%26pseudoid%3D%26userid%3D%26id%3D%26a%3D%26xstx%3D0%26cbstore%3D0%26resultview%3DsortbyPopular%26lightbox%3D%26gname%3D%26gtype%3D%26apalic%3D%26tbar%3D0%26pc%3D%26simid%3D%26cap%3D1%26customgeoip%3DCA%26vd%3D0%26cid%3D3EE5EG5PK3YZCQBJVSZ4DE7ZQ6TLVPTA26FXEQ9DTVA4EB7GN2GTE9BCFBLNKAN5%26pe%3D%26so%3D%26lb%3D%26langcode%3Den%26saveQry%3D%26editorial%3D1%26t%3D0%26edoptin%3D%26ps%3D100%26pn%3D6%26cbstore%3D0
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Bill, what would you think if someone licensed your Walmart image above for personal use. Would you be convinced that it was for legit reasons? Just curious...

 

 

Legit reasons for personal use do not concern me, and it should not concern photographers. I try to be a positive person. I try to not focus on the negative.

 
If someone licensed my Walmart image for personal use at $19.99 I would give them the benefit of any doubt, and move on while pocketing the $10. In the overall scheme of things, it is a waste of time and energy to worry about the price or legitimacy of Personal Use. 
 
I think about my annual sales total. I think about making great images.
 
One of the things I have noticed about Stock Photo Libraries who appear to cater to photographer’s dreams with high prices, RM forever, a credit for every use, every copyright abuse into court, we will personally answer your phone call and talk for hours about matters that concern you, etc is that they often restructure without paying the photographers, or they do not make any sales. Any competent stock photo library cannot leave pricing up to their photographers. If the particular stock photo library pricing overall does not fit the stock photographer’s business plan, then the the stock photographer should move on. 
 
A certain amount of being ripped off, comes with being successful. The more successful you are, the more often you will be ripped off. The equivalent of opting out of Personal Use at Alamy would be for successful Walmart to close some of it’s stores, because some people steal merchandise.
 
So to answer your question. Legit reasons for Personal Use? Not worth your concern or mine.
 
Allen Bell: Good idea but probably get sued by WaLLmart for messing with their logo.
 
Here is a $19.99 Personal Use greeting card sale this month. Was one of a series, produced inside on a cold January day, and took about 10 minutes of my time in photoshop. I couldn’t care less if Personal Use is legit or not.
 
photo-illustration-concept-of-being-on-c
 
 
 
Rest of cloud series here mid page:
 
http://www.alamy.com/search/imageresults.aspx?&xstx=0&userid=%7BF0453AA0-D41A-421F-B4D6-F125791B632D%7D&name=bill%2Dbrooks&st=12&ps=100&pn=6&cbstore=0#BHM=foo%3Dbar%26st%3D12%26sortby%3D2%26qt%3D%26qt_raw%3D%26qn%3D%26lic%3D3%26mr%3D0%26pr%3D0%26aoa%3D1%26creative%3D%26videos%3D%26nu%3D%26ccc%3D%26bespoke%3D%26apalib%3D%26ag%3D0%26hc%3D0%26et%3D0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3D0%26loc%3D0%26ot%3D0%26imgt%3D0%26dtfr%3D%26dtto%3D%26size%3D0xFF%26blackwhite%3D%26cutout%3D%26archive%3D1%26name%3Dbill-brooks%26groupid%3D%26pseudoid%3D%26userid%3D%26id%3D%26a%3D%26xstx%3D0%26cbstore%3D0%26resultview%3DsortbyPopular%26lightbox%3D%26gname%3D%26gtype%3D%26apalic%3D%26tbar%3D0%26pc%3D%26simid%3D%26cap%3D1%26customgeoip%3DCA%26vd%3D0%26cid%3D3EE5EG5PK3YZCQBJVSZ4DE7ZQ6TLVPTA26FXEQ9DTVA4EB7GN2GTE9BCFBLNKAN5%26pe%3D%26so%3D%26lb%3D%26langcode%3Den%26saveQry%3D%26editorial%3D1%26t%3D0%26edoptin%3D%26ps%3D100%26pn%3D6%26cbstore%3D0

 

 

I see, Bill. A legit response to my question. At least I think that it's legit...

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I usually give you greenies, Bill, but while you may be happy with PU sales, a lot of us aren't. I'm sorry, but if buyers are using PU instead of paying for the proper useage, it affects my bottom line.

Last month, two similar business-type images were licensed for $150 and $139. That's $145 or so in my pocket. A far cry from $20.

 

If you read the threads, people here say their yearly sales are up, but revenues way down. Some of that is just lower prices. But buyers are seeming to catch on to the PU scam because I'm seeing more people reporting more PU usage of editorial images.

 

With some of those lower sales, I was still getting a few decent ones. I wonder if that will be the case a year down the road or I'll see a long list of PU sales of my business images. Because those are the ones being ripped off. And those were the ones making my sales decent.

I guess it works for you, Bill. I've always been an optimist who looks on the bright side. But I'm also a realist. If something slaps me in the face as unfair, it rattles my cage.

Betty

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I had a PU sale for $10.32 on 28th March.  Photo of a shrub - pretty photo so I could just about accept the PU element. 

 

Two days later it's refunded, but, in the meantime, it sold again for editorial use, this time for $41.31.  That gets me thinking.

 

Than it sells again on the 6th April, this time for brochure use for $124.97, and to the same country.  Great, I think, use in a magazine and for a brochure.  Money!

 

Then usage 2 gets refunded, leaving only the brochure use.  That, fortunately, cleared a couple of days ago, so I'll get my 50% in June.  But it does make me very suspicious.  I have a feeling that Alamy may have also been suspicious and that there is checking behind the scenes going on.

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I usually give you greenies, Bill, but while you may be happy with PU sales, a lot of us aren't. I'm sorry, but if buyers are using PU instead of paying for the proper useage, it affects my bottom line.

Last month, two similar business-type images were licensed for $150 and $139. That's $145 or so in my pocket. A far cry from $20.

 

If you read the threads, people here say their yearly sales are up, but revenues way down. Some of that is just lower prices. But buyers are seeming to catch on to the PU scam because I'm seeing more people reporting more PU usage of editorial images.

 

With some of those lower sales, I was still getting a few decent ones. I wonder if that will be the case a year down the road or I'll see a long list of PU sales of my business images. Because those are the ones being ripped off. And those were the ones making my sales decent.

I guess it works for you, Bill. I've always been an optimist who looks on the bright side. But I'm also a realist. If something slaps me in the face as unfair, it rattles my cage.

Betty

 

I agree, Betty. It's not a matter of optimism or pessimism, but rather one of self-respect. We owe it to ourselves to be concerned about the possible misuse of our hard work.There now seems to be ample evidence that PU is being abused.This "should" concern us all IMO. Bill's Walmart analogy has some truth to it, but a giant like Walmart can absorb being ripped off a heck of a lot easier than we can. It's not an "apples to apples" comparison.

Edited by John Mitchell
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I had a PU sale for $10.32 on 28th March.  Photo of a shrub - pretty photo so I could just about accept the PU element. 

 

Two days later it's refunded, but, in the meantime, it sold again for editorial use, this time for $41.31.  That gets me thinking.

 

Than it sells again on the 6th April, this time for brochure use for $124.97, and to the same country.  Great, I think, use in a magazine and for a brochure.  Money!

 

Then usage 2 gets refunded, leaving only the brochure use.  That, fortunately, cleared a couple of days ago, so I'll get my 50% in June.  But it does make me very suspicious.  I have a feeling that Alamy may have also been suspicious and that there is checking behind the scenes going on.

I so hope you're right that Alamy is beginning to get on top of it.
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I agree, Betty. It's not a matter of optimism or pessimism, but rather one of self-respect. We owe it to ourselves to be concerned about the possible misuse of our hard work.There now seems to be ample evidence that PU is being abused.This "should" concern us all IMO. Bill's Walmart analogy has some truth to it, but a giant like Walmart can absorb being ripped off a heck of a lot easier than we can. It's not an "apples to apples" comparison.

 

 

 

Walmart is one of the most successful retailers in the world by selling name brand goods at the lowest possible price.

 
I am sure that Walmart executives have a lot of self respect. Does anyone on this list shop at Walmart? Or do you have too much self respect to buy name brand goods at the lowest possible price?
 
John Richmond’s refunds sound more like client confusion than an attempt to defraud. Maybe the client was the one who realized their mistake and corrected the license. Maybe Alamy had nothing to do with the refunds.
 
I suppose low prices for Personal Use are an easy thing to grab onto, but the real reason for photographer’s poorer bottom lines is too many good images chasing too few clients. The problem is industry wide, not just at Alamy.
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Actually, I've been supporting my local hardware store instead of getting it cheaper at Walmart.

 

A few years ago, I was buying groceries at Walmart. Shopping from a list. I did a no-no. I left my handbag in the child seat while I turned to pick up a cantaloupe. In the blink of an eye, it was gone.

My car and house keys were in my pocket, thank heavens. After canceling my credit cards, I ran to my bank, canceling my account and opening a new one, getting a pack of blank checks while new ones were ordered. Then a new driver's license. Horrible picture. I had been crying.

I went back to Walmart and filled my basket with the same items. It was a full basket.

At the checkout, Walmart refused to honor my check because my name, address etc wasn't on it. For the 2nd time, I walked away from a full basket. But I did see what the bill was. I was at the pay stage.

 

I went to another grocery, asked if they'd take my check, and filled my basket with the same items. But this time, I added a large bag of dishwasher detergent capsules, worth $7. I also threw in two nice t bone steaks. Those puppies were around $15.

Got to the checkout, and hey, even with stuff that cost $20 + extra, my bill was $9 less than it was at Wally World.

So no, I don't go there for cheaper stuff. I go there for the pharmacy, where I've been for many years. For convenience, I sometimes pick up a few things knowing I'm probably being ripped off.

 

Your getting in dangerous territory, Bill, flipping the self-respect card at us. Self respect has nothing to do with it. It's all about the bottom line! at least for me.

Betty

Edited by Betty LaRue
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I had never stepped inside a Walmart until last year. The only thing I've ever bought there is an article of clothing that turned out to be very poor quality.

 

Walmart gives me existential angst. Doubt that I'll be going back. Guess I'm a snob. B)

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I had a PU sale for $10.32 on 28th March.  Photo of a shrub - pretty photo so I could just about accept the PU element. 

 

Two days later it's refunded, but, in the meantime, it sold again for editorial use, this time for $41.31.  That gets me thinking.

 

Than it sells again on the 6th April, this time for brochure use for $124.97, and to the same country.  Great, I think, use in a magazine and for a brochure.  Money!

 

Then usage 2 gets refunded, leaving only the brochure use.  That, fortunately, cleared a couple of days ago, so I'll get my 50% in June.  But it does make me very suspicious.  I have a feeling that Alamy may have also been suspicious and that there is checking behind the scenes going on.

I so hope you're right that Alamy is beginning to get on top of it.

 

 

That would be nice.

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Last time I went, Asda (Walmart's brand here in the UK), had CCTV, a security guard and security alarms at the exit. Their higher value and/or easily stolen goods are also protected by security tags. Their shopping trolleys are also protected by tags which prevent them from being taken outside the bounds of the car park. I have no doubt that their staff training includes theft prevention techniques and awareness.

 

As you say, Bill, they are doubtless prepared to write off a certain percentage of their profits from petty theft, but they do all they can to prevent it in the first place.

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I'd wondered if you could see your download on the iPad. I've tried on mine. I get the headers, but not the figures.

 

 

Hi Cecile. Do you mean uploads? My submissions? I can see the images if I scroll down. There is a big blank space opposite the submission numbers for some reason.

 

Gen

Gen, I was referring to using the download sales report button on my iPad. If I click on it, with all the boxes ticked and the range properly set, nothing shows but the headers for the sales report. I can get the information using my Mac desktop, so figured there must be a glitch when using the iPad. However, if you and others using an iPad can download a sales report I must be doing something wrong.
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I'd wondered if you could see your download on the iPad. I've tried on mine. I get the headers, but not the figures.

 

Hi Cecile. Do you mean uploads? My submissions? I can see the images if I scroll down. There is a big blank space opposite the submission numbers for some reason.

 

Gen

Gen, I was referring to using the download sales report button on my iPad. If I click on it, with all the boxes ticked and the range properly set, nothing shows but the headers for the sales report. I can get the information using my Mac desktop, so figured there must be a glitch when using the iPad. However, if you and others using an iPad can download a sales report I must be doing something wrong.

 

 

Oh I see. No I don't use my iPad to download the report. However I have just tried, and it shows everything, like on my desktop.

However, don't listen to me as I'm still on iOS6. Things might have gone awry with a more recent iOS.

 

Gen

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At 19.99 gross I suppose I can just about accept it. But here in the UK it seems to a be around 9.99, which, if the file is not used for personal use is not only taking the p but is also fraud. As Alamy refuse to divulge details of the purchaser (All my other agencies do provide this information) then Alamy should be chasing this with the same diligence as Walmart apparently chase their customers who thieve goods. 

 

So far my replies on this subject from Alamy only indicate that the definition of Personal use is much wider than my understanding of the term relative to their other licensing models thus allowing PU sales to replace editorial sales in some instances.

 

Regen

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At 19.99 gross I suppose I can just about accept it. But here in the UK it seems to a be around 9.99, which, if the file is not used for personal use is not only taking the p but is also fraud. As Alamy refuse to divulge details of the purchaser (All my other agencies do provide this information) then Alamy should be chasing this with the same diligence as Walmart apparently chase their customers who thieve goods. 

 

So far my replies on this subject from Alamy only indicate that the definition of Personal use is much wider than my understanding of the term relative to their other licensing models thus allowing PU sales to replace editorial sales in some instances.

 

Regen

 

Interesting. I wonder how broad the definition actually is. Could there be such a thing as a personal editorial use?

 

In my experience, $19.99 is the exception, most of my PU sales have been less than that amount.

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