IPTC fields - where am I going wrong

[katemugs]

Hi

 

I normally submit stock images but have an image I took yesterday which I want to submit as news.  I've been trying since last night to upload it but keep having problems.  I've read the guidance on IPTC metadata fields, and have asked alamy for the test image.  The data is showing in photoshop, but its not showing when I upload it hence it keeps being rejected.  I've been in touch with the news desk and emailed images over to them, and they can't see any data.  Nor can I see the fields filled in from their test shot.  I've tried entering it in lightroom, exporting as tiff to photoshop, then exporting as jpeg from there (my normal workflow) but that's not working either.  Can anyone help please?  I'm running out of time before the image is 24 hours old anyway as its taken me so long to try to upload it!!!!!!

 

I'm putting headline in File info/Origin/Headline in this format  "Fall out from the Chilcot enquiry continues, London, UK"

and caption in file info/IPTC/IPTC content/Description with this as my format "London, UK. 6th July, 2016. An evening newspaper lies discarded in the street. Former Prime Minister Tony Blair is back in the headlines as Chilcot enquiry outcome is published. Kate Muggleton/Alamy Live News"

 

Can anyone please help before my laptop lets launched out of a very high window!

 

Thanks

[Ed Brown]

Why dont you just export the jpg from Lightroom & send that? or am i missing something? 

[spacecadet]

Why dont you just export the jpg from Lightroom & send that? or am i missing something? 

.and make sure "all metadata" is ticked in export.

[katemugs]

For want of a better explanation - it's the workflow that was suggested on a stock photography course...... I understood that it created better quality images and allowed for proper checking of the files at 100% and 50%.  It does seem to be the conversion from TIFF to jpeg which is losing the data though.

[MDM]

Your problem is that you are exporting from Photoshop - you should simply Save As JPEG if you want to use that workflow. The Export from PS loses the metadata.

[katemugs]

 

Why dont you just export the jpg from Lightroom & send that? or am i missing something? 

.and make sure "all metadata" is ticked in export.

 

 

In lightroom I can see the option for all meta data but in photoshop, its only giving me the option of 'none' or 'copyright and contact info'

[katemugs]

Your problem is that you are exporting from Photoshop - you should simply Save As JPEG if you want to use that workflow. The Export from PS loses the metadata.

 

Thank you MDM!  What image options should I be using?  Quality, file size, format options etc.

[MDM]

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

[Sultanpepa]

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

All my images are sRGB never had a problem. I'm sure that's what Alamy asked for when I joined.

[MDM]

 

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

All my images are sRGB never had a problem. I'm sure that's what Alamy asked for when I joined.

 

 

They used to say AdobeRGB back some years ago but they don't seem to specify anything now. I don't know what happens when they sell an image - whether it retains the profile or is downloaded untagged so this may be moot.

 

In any case, I'm thinking more generally here than Alamy usage. I;m thinking of the original raw conversion which one would probably only want to do once, certainly if editing in PS and not LR. Using sRGB is definitely cutting your options as it is a very small color space in comparison to Adobe or the giant ProFoto. Assuming you are using LR and a calibrated monitor, to get an idea of what is getting lost, try Soft Proofing from the develop module, choose one or the other profile and have the gamut warning turned on. You will likely see lots of red stuff on the sRGB that is not present in the AdobeRGB. That indicates the colours that sRGB can't deal with and what you are losing in doing your raw conversions to sRGB.

[Sultanpepa]

 

 

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

All my images are sRGB never had a problem. I'm sure that's what Alamy asked for when I joined.

 

 

They used to say AdobeRGB back some years ago but they don't seem to specify anything now. I don't know what happens when they sell an image - whether it retains the profile or is downloaded untagged so this may be moot.

 

In any case, I'm thinking more generally here than Alamy usage. I;m thinking of the original raw conversion which one would probably only want to do once, certainly if editing in PS and not LR. Using sRGB is definitely cutting your options as it is a very small color space in comparison to Adobe or the giant ProFoto. Assuming you are using LR and a calibrated monitor, to get an idea of what is getting lost, try Soft Proofing from the develop module, choose one or the other profile and have the gamut warning turned on. You will likely see lots of red stuff on the sRGB that is not present in the AdobeRGB. That indicates the colours that sRGB can't deal with and what you are losing in doing your raw conversions to sRGB.

 

That is something I'm going to have to consider changing. I wonder if Alamy would care to comment on their preference? I checked a recent image and it says Nikon sRGB 4.0.0.3002, I notice there are a number of different options including Nikon adobe RGB 4.0.0.3001 and an Adobewide RGB 4.0.0.3001. I'm using Capture NX2 for processing and find this a bit confusing. Sorry to katemugs for the hijack, maybe I should start a new thread. 

[katemugs]

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

 

Thank you very much MDM.  tbh I don't do much editing and my photoshop knowledge is relatively poor (as you may have guessed!).  A LR workflow might be the answer.  I basically only use photoshop to check the images and then export to jpeg and it does seem a pretty time consuming way to do it.

[katemugs]

 

 

 

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

All my images are sRGB never had a problem. I'm sure that's what Alamy asked for when I joined.

 

 

They used to say AdobeRGB back some years ago but they don't seem to specify anything now. I don't know what happens when they sell an image - whether it retains the profile or is downloaded untagged so this may be moot.

 

In any case, I'm thinking more generally here than Alamy usage. I;m thinking of the original raw conversion which one would probably only want to do once, certainly if editing in PS and not LR. Using sRGB is definitely cutting your options as it is a very small color space in comparison to Adobe or the giant ProFoto. Assuming you are using LR and a calibrated monitor, to get an idea of what is getting lost, try Soft Proofing from the develop module, choose one or the other profile and have the gamut warning turned on. You will likely see lots of red stuff on the sRGB that is not present in the AdobeRGB. That indicates the colours that sRGB can't deal with and what you are losing in doing your raw conversions to sRGB.

 

That is something I'm going to have to consider changing. I wonder if Alamy would care to comment on their preference? I checked a recent image and it says Nikon sRGB 4.0.0.3002, I notice there are a number of different options including Nikon adobe RGB 4.0.0.3001 and an Adobewide RGB 4.0.0.3001. I'm using Capture NX2 for processing and find this a bit confusing. Sorry to katemugs for the hijack, maybe I should start a new thread. 

 

No problem re the hijack!  Thanks for your help and would be interested to know the answer!

[MDM]

 

 

 

 

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

All my images are sRGB never had a problem. I'm sure that's what Alamy asked for when I joined.

 

 

They used to say AdobeRGB back some years ago but they don't seem to specify anything now. I don't know what happens when they sell an image - whether it retains the profile or is downloaded untagged so this may be moot.

 

In any case, I'm thinking more generally here than Alamy usage. I;m thinking of the original raw conversion which one would probably only want to do once, certainly if editing in PS and not LR. Using sRGB is definitely cutting your options as it is a very small color space in comparison to Adobe or the giant ProFoto. Assuming you are using LR and a calibrated monitor, to get an idea of what is getting lost, try Soft Proofing from the develop module, choose one or the other profile and have the gamut warning turned on. You will likely see lots of red stuff on the sRGB that is not present in the AdobeRGB. That indicates the colours that sRGB can't deal with and what you are losing in doing your raw conversions to sRGB.

 

That is something I'm going to have to consider changing. I wonder if Alamy would care to comment on their preference? I checked a recent image and it says Nikon sRGB 4.0.0.3002, I notice there are a number of different options including Nikon adobe RGB 4.0.0.3001 and an Adobewide RGB 4.0.0.3001. I'm using Capture NX2 for processing and find this a bit confusing. Sorry to katemugs for the hijack, maybe I should start a new thread. 

 

 

Nikon cameras are set to sRGB. So, better check you camera's menu settings and change it into AdobeRGB.

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

 

The camera setting affects only the in-camera JPEG, it doesn't affect the raw image - that is determined at the point of the raw conversion. It seems silly that Nikon defaults to sRGB JPEGs on its DSLRs.

 

If Alamy provide the customer with an image tagged with the same profile as uploaded, then I think AdobeRGB is sensible as it gives the customer the widest options. I definitely recall that AdobeRGB was advised in the Alamy guidance some years ago. It may not matter at all but then it might. It would be interesting to know but I'm not buying an image to find out.

 

In any case, as I said above, I'm talking broader than Alamy here. Doing the raw conversion to sRGB and then doing further editing on the image is definitely narrowing the color space on any derivative images.

[MDM]

 

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

 

Thank you very much MDM.  tbh I don't do much editing and my photoshop knowledge is relatively poor (as you may have guessed!).  A LR workflow might be the answer.  I basically only use photoshop to check the images and then export to jpeg and it does seem a pretty time consuming way to do it.

 

 

Just to clarify - I prefer to examine images for dust spots and sharpness in Photoshop rather than Lightroom because the graphics are still way faster (although LR has improved a lot speedwise) so that is still a good reason to open in PS.  I will always save the image in Photoshop as a PSD even if I only do nothing more than a little spotting. That becomes my second master image (I always keep the raw as well - storage is cheap).  I then export the PSD from LR or save as JPEG from PS - it doesn't matter which but exporting from PS as a JPEG will lose most or all of the metadata so probably not a good idea and certainly not for news uploads.

[Darryl]

 

Save at highest quality JPEG, full file size. I always embed the color profile (should be Adobe RGB, not sRGB or ProFoto). I don;t think there are any other options when saving as JPEG from PS.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the workflow and why it was recommended. I do spotting and basic editing in Photoshop and save as PSD (much better than TIFF I think) to save losslessly and then finally export the PSD from LR as a JPEG. The reason for saving as TIFF or PSD is that these are lossless formats unlike JPEG. However, it doesn't give a better quality image (unless you resave the image in JPEG format numerous times which will eventually degrade the image). Many people now use LR exclusively and, depending on how much editing you do and your skill level, you may be better to think about a LR workflow. I certainly use PS a lot less than I used to but I still couldn't live without it.

 

Thank you very much MDM.  tbh I don't do much editing and my photoshop knowledge is relatively poor (as you may have guessed!).  A LR workflow might be the answer.  I basically only use photoshop to check the images and then export to jpeg and it does seem a pretty time consuming way to do it.

 

In that case, you should definitely consider an LR workflow. I only go into PS if I need to do something LR won't do and that's rare for me. 

[Johnnie5]

An alternative is to open the image in Adobe Bridge after exporting from PS where you will find those fields in the metadata panel under IPTC core and you can fill them out there or just do a quick check before uploading.  That might fit your current workflow a little better.

[fotoDogue]

Your problem is that you are exporting from Photoshop - you should simply Save As JPEG if you want to use that workflow. The Export from PS loses the metadata.

 

Agreed. I didn't even realize until now that you could import/export with PhotoShop. My general workflo is to right click on an image in Lightroom to open in PhotoShop, caption, etc, Save As a tif and then Save As a jpg for Alamy.

[MDM]

 

Your problem is that you are exporting from Photoshop - you should simply Save As JPEG if you want to use that workflow. The Export from PS loses the metadata.

 

Agreed. I didn't even realize until now that you could import/export with PhotoShop. My general workflo is to right click on an image in Lightroom to open in PhotoShop, caption, etc, Save As a tif and then Save As a jpg for Alamy.

 

 

It's a PSCC thing, not available in CS6 or earlier. I think it is intended mainly as a replacement for Save for Web so not really appropriate for the present purpose.

[MDM]

An alternative is to open the image in Adobe Bridge after exporting from PS where you will find those fields in the metadata panel under IPTC core and you can fill them out there or just do a quick check before uploading.  That might fit your current workflow a little better.

 

That would be overcomplicating things I feel as those fields are easily visible in Lightroom. Simplest workflow for the OP is to do everything in LR and export from there directly or alternatively open in PS, save the image in whatever format (PSD, TIFF or JPEG), the image then appears in LR and export as JPEG from there.

[fotoDogue]

 

 

Your problem is that you are exporting from Photoshop - you should simply Save As JPEG if you want to use that workflow. The Export from PS loses the metadata.

 

Agreed. I didn't even realize until now that you could import/export with PhotoShop. My general workflo is to right click on an image in Lightroom to open in PhotoShop, caption, etc, Save As a tif and then Save As a jpg for Alamy.

 

 

It's a PSCC thing, not available in CS6 or earlier. I think it is intended mainly as a replacement for Save for Web so not really appropriate for the present purpose.

 

 

 

 

Import/Export is available in CS6. Come to think of it, I've used the Import/Export menu in previous versions for plug-ins, such as scanner and other devices, that PS doesn't directly support.

Importing photos into PhotoShop is a totally different concept from what Lightroom does since it's not cataloging photos.

[MDM]

 

 

 

Your problem is that you are exporting from Photoshop - you should simply Save As JPEG if you want to use that workflow. The Export from PS loses the metadata.

 

Agreed. I didn't even realize until now that you could import/export with PhotoShop. My general workflo is to right click on an image in Lightroom to open in PhotoShop, caption, etc, Save As a tif and then Save As a jpg for Alamy.

 

 

It's a PSCC thing, not available in CS6 or earlier. I think it is intended mainly as a replacement for Save for Web so not really appropriate for the present purpose.

 

 

 

 

Import/Export is available in CS6. Come to think of it, I've used the Import/Export menu in previous versions for plug-ins, such as scanner and other devices, that PS doesn't directly support.

Importing photos into PhotoShop is a totally different concept from what Lightroom does since it's not cataloging photos.

 

 

Yes but the CC version is a very different expanded version. It includes the previous export options but also incorporates various options aimed at saving for web use, which is what the OP was using, as well as the legacy Save for Web.

[MDM]

It's a legacy approach. Before LR became the tool of choice and before Bridge in fact, using File Info in Photoshop was a typical way of accessing and adding metadata.

[Matt Ashmore]

 

It's a legacy approach. Before LR became the tool of choice and before Bridge in fact, using File Info in Photoshop was a typical way of accessing and adding metadata.

 

 

I used to use PS Elements for it, but that was likely before I started to use LR. Plus LR's interface is quite different from any other software in the way it changes files and metadata without needing to actually hit a save button. If someone isn't used to that, I understand it takes some getting used to.

 

Geoff.

 

 

 

Hmm.. i had a similar issue to the OP with Lightroom. In the end, I discovered in the Library module, there was a 'Metadata' menu which had the option 'Save Metadata to File' ... so while not a save 'button', we have save 'menu option'.    Finding and using this option hidden in the menu fixed the problem for me.

[MDM]

 

 

 

It's a legacy approach. Before LR became the tool of choice and before Bridge in fact, using File Info in Photoshop was a typical way of accessing and adding metadata.

 

 

I used to use PS Elements for it, but that was likely before I started to use LR. Plus LR's interface is quite different from any other software in the way it changes files and metadata without needing to actually hit a save button. If someone isn't used to that, I understand it takes some getting used to.

 

Geoff.

 

 

 

Hmm.. i had a similar issue to the OP with Lightroom. In the end, I discovered in the Library module, there was a 'Metadata' menu which had the option 'Save Metadata to File' ... so while not a save 'button', we have save 'menu option'.    Finding and using this option hidden in the menu fixed the problem for me.

 

 

 

The OP's problem seemed to be that they were exporting to PS and saving as a JPG from there.

 

When I edit metadata in LR I don't need to save anything. Entering the data then pressing enter or just moving to another field will save it. It might depend where in LR you actually make the edits though.

 

Geoff.

 

 

In the Catalog Prefs (not the general LR prefs), there is an option "Automatically write changes into XMP". If this is not ticked, then the metadata is not automatically saved for the raw files and you have to do what Matt is saying - specifically save the metadata or it will not travel with the raw file if copying it for backup. I've never tried it but if one exports as JPEG without first writing the metadata to XMP, then perhaps it doesn't get written to the JPEG. Something to try sometime.

 

To clarify, the issue with the OP was that she was inputting the metadata in PS File Info but exporting as a JPEG (PSCC only) which loses most or all of the metadata instead of simply saving as a JPEG which preserves the metadata.