Armstrong Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I have relatively few images on Alamy compared to some of the more experienced contributors. There is an often quoted average figure that roughly speaking 1000 images will return x dollars in sales per year. I was wondering if as an individual contributor adds many more images (thousands) does their individual return per image figure increase? The reasons could be that as sales come in the photographer gets a better idea of what works for them, or their zooms indicate better subjects to concentrate on. Or does the RPI for an individual stay roughly the same as more images go up? The reason I am asking is to help trying to predict the number of images I need to upload to Alamy to get the income I would like. Many Thanks Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChayLibby Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 This is a very interesting question and would love to see answers to this question as well. I don't want to hijack this thread, but perhaps the question may also be content verses quantity. I've seen photos that people put up that look like snapshots and that adds to the amount of their images, but I don't think that guarantees more sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Or does the RPI for an individual stay roughly the same as more images go up? The reason I am asking is to help trying to predict the number of images I need to upload to Alamy to get the income I would like. Many Thanks Michael The simple answer is no Michael, too many variables. For example my average sale price per image is now 1/7 of what it was back in 2007. Percentage has dropped from 65% to 50%. Alamy is also increasing its cut from the dollar percentage by 25%. On the other hand, currency fluctuations have taken place. So if I made 100 sales back in 2007 I would need to make approximately 900 sales this year to be at the same point. If the 1 in 100 average was applied (as quoted elsewhere), that would mean having 90,000 images at the start of the year to produce those 900 sales. To put it in perspective, the average sale is around 30-40 usd so even saying 40usd. 900x40 is 36k dollars gross, 18k dollars net or about 11k gbp give or take depending on bank fees, conversion rates etc. At 30 usd per sale average thats about 8.7k or thereabouts gbp. So on average 90,000 images on alamy over a year should earn you a couple of grand less than the adult full time uk minimum wage but that depends on prices being steady and not continuing to fall and depends on producing images people want to buy and producing them better than the people in the ranking system above you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Joe - Thank you for such a detailed answer. Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Many of the variables make comparison between creators moot. That photographer A makes $X from an amount of images, wont mean that photographer B will do the same. And each of them increasing their offerings may have completely contradictory results depending on what they are offering, where it is offered, to whom it is offered, whether Saturn was conjunct Neptune, if there was a disaster in a place taken by one, whether someone got married in the photo of the other, whther there was copy space in the top left hand corner.... etc etc. Thanks funkyworm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Some believe quantity trumps quality. Others prefer quality over quantity. Take your pick. Personally, I believe in a healthy mix of everything. Whether you prefer to call this haphazard; aimless or random, I don't care. There is a confusing paradox specific to Alamy: Views mean sales. However too many views without enough sales means very low rank means even lesser sales. wim 23C/75F/sun here 6/40F/rain at home ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Thanks Wim - I hope the weather remains warm for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Endicott Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The simple response is "don't quit your day job" I've been chasing regular monthly revenue for years. Throwing up a bunch of images isn't necessarily going to give you better returns these days - the reason for it is there are 20,000+ other people doing the same thing. It all depends on the topic, the timeliness of the image, and what the buyer is looking for at that particular moment in time. If you can align all those three items together, you are guaranteed to have regular images licensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Holt Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Quality of photography versus your ability to fully comprehend the Alamy keyword gaming system is another thing. Alamy should give more information in this regard so that the quality of photography is what defines it's collection. As it is, I often wonder if I'm better served spending more time on their algorithms than my output! Ridiculous maybe, but more often than not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Quality of photography versus your ability to fully comprehend the Alamy keyword gaming system is another thing. Alamy should give more information in this regard so that the quality of photography is what defines it's collection. As it is, I often wonder if I'm better served spending more time on their algorithms than my output! Ridiculous maybe, but more often than not true. I know a team working to reverse engineer alamyrank from a photographers perspective. Like any software algorithm its a series of inputs and outputs, draw enough data from inputs across enough time and you can reasonably predict results. They are pretty much there and the results are impressive. Not cheap obviously but when you see the results in black and white its hard to ignore the fact that you are better spending time on their algorithms than producing new output, particularly with the rapid drop off in fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Quality of photography versus your ability to fully comprehend the Alamy keyword gaming system is another thing. Alamy should give more information in this regard so that the quality of photography is what defines it's collection. That would require an edited collection. If they did that I for one wouldn't have a prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 "Or does the RPI for an individual stay roughly the same as more images go up?" Somehow I don't think that RPI is a valid measure of success on Alamy any longer. For new contributors, RPI is likely to rise as they add more images. However, after they have uploaded a significant number of photos -- say a couple of thousand -- to the millions, RPI is bound to plateau and then start to fall as more images are added. What matters is that total income continues to go up. If it does, then falling RPI isn't all that important IMO. If income doesn't go up or starts to decline, then it's time to change one's ways or look for a day job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Yarvin Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Let's not forget subject matter! What you shoot is important too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giphotostock Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Let's not forget subject matter! What you shoot is important too! And how (ie style), particularly for commercial.. GI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I know! youre right! but when its got that far, that one has to spend more time with the algorithm rather then quality/output and it still don't work, well........... time to quit isn't it. Not here but at other agencies where I have several thousand images in files. I still go by the formula, input/time vs revenue and if it don't match for some months, it's time to leave. Quality of photography versus your ability to fully comprehend the Alamy keyword gaming system is another thing. Alamy should give more information in this regard so that the quality of photography is what defines it's collection. As it is, I often wonder if I'm better served spending more time on their algorithms than my output! Ridiculous maybe, but more often than not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Brook Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The only metric that matters is your net RPI for recent work (say work produced over the past two years). As work ages it becomes archival. An RPI of £1 p.a might be good for an archive of old work stretching back a few decades. Comparing Alamy with a number of other agencies and suppliers I came to the conclusion that Alamy's main strength is its archives, and buyers can seek out work not easily found elsewhere. For new work, I would say that an RPI of £1 is a disaster. At some agencies you would be fired if you were only making that amount. But here, with 50m to compete with, its hard to get much beyond that figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Yarvin Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Back to subject matter. It's interesting to compare the comments here to people's style and subject choices. I'm thinking hard about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thank you for all of your comments - there's a lot of useful information in them to consider. It's all really helpful. Personally I hope that as I submit more photos that my RPI improves (external market forces permitting). I hope the combination of actual sales, zooms and views data will enable me to make better decisions about what I shoot and submit. I would like to see an improved Alamy Measures soon that includes all the data from buyers and viewers on my photos. At the moment it's only a subset of customers. I realise that on 'All of Alamy' the Company would not wish to disclose every sale made for commercial reasons. However within my 'My Alamy' I would like to see the complete set of data. Another thread is about the new Manage Images. It's nearly 5 years since the iPad was released and I still can't keyword my images on it. Anything that benefits getting better images on sale quicker is a win for Alamy and the Contributors. The Quantity Vs Quality debate is an interesting one. In my own opinion Contributors submit for one of two reasons: Income (IMHO the majority) or because they like seeing their images in use. If it's about income then you have to make your submissions as 'commercial' as possible hence my point about Alamy Measures. I think the Quantity strategy only works up until the point where you are generating enough data to be able to make informed decisions. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Holt Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I would say that once you have "cracked" the algorithm (searching amongst your own images for prime keyword patterns should help there) then the most important thing would be to keep adding to your library. I've come to the conclusion that your oldest images are pushed to the back of results if you don't submit regularly. Ie: your RPI of fresh and archived material will be less if you don't keep adding. Sounds like a pyramid scheme of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giphotostock Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I hope the combination of actual sales, zooms and views data will enable me to make better decisions about what I shoot and submit. Nothing beats a meaningful conversation with an editor. However, it is not how Alamy is set up. GI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChayLibby Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Thank you Armstrong for starting this thread and all who contributed to this discussion. I've gained a lot reading through the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I get top dollar sales wise on my own for my archive images. Last week $2900 net on just a few licenses to tv and fine art prints. If I had those images with an agency I would have netted $75.00..maybe. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 If someone needs and wants something bad enough,the will pay for it. L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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