Saving in PS in Level 10 instead of 12

[Jill Morgan]

I always save in Maximum 12 in PS when saving my photos. Level 10 is the minimum requirement for Alamy and wondered if anyone here saves in 10 or 11 instead of 12? I can't see any noticeable difference to my naked eye and the file size is half in 10 than it is in 12.

 

Does everyone here save in 12, or do some of you save a little disc space and save in 10 or 11?

 

Jill

 

 

[Guest]

Level 10 or 11 is fine, in fact some commercial agencies won't let you use level 12 for upload.

 

I don't habitually save the jpeg for storage - TIFFs/psds etc for stock work. Client work is almost always at level 11 unless they specify even lower!!

[Jill Morgan]

Have changed my settings to 11. Looks perfectly great to me, and why hog more file space than you have to?

 

Jill

[Phil]

Alamy says this:  

 

"Save the image as a high quality JPEG file (level 8 or above in Photoshop). "

 

I save .jpgs at Level 10 and it seems to work fine.

 

 

[Colin Woods]

I have been saving at level 10 for 2-3 years now, so 4-5000 shots uploaded with no trouble.

Col

[clupica]

Here's a couple of things to think about.  File compression throws pixels away, or more accurately you can say that the jpeg compression looks for values that are very close and combines them into a single value.  By doing this it eliminates the number of coding pairs it needs to encrypt. What this suggests to me is that jpeg compression subtlety impacts the quality of the image.  It is possible that compressing an image makes it softer because it is eliminating some of the more subtle contrast that helps to make things look sharper. It also suggests that jpeg compression is altering the contrast of an image. Secondly, it's been mentioned before that Alamy, and other agencies, compress the uploaded images further during the upload process to help minimize their storage requirements. So you have to ask yourself, " what is the reason to save as anything other than 12?"  Is a quicker upload all that important when you may be subtly altering the image quality ?  Unless you're uploading large batches of images, the amount of time is only annoying if you're watching the clock and waiting for the whole thing to fail. 

 

There's a tie in here with another discussion about size.  If you want to reduce the size of files being uploaded consider downsizing them to to a jpeg of 25mb to 30mb uncompressed.  This has the advantage of being large enough to slip into the the 25 - 48mb Alamy file size filter and allows for some subtle sharpening via size reduction.  To me that seems like a better approach than letting jpeg compression toss pixels out without regard to improving the image. 

 

I always save and upload at 12.  The only time I save at 10 or 11 is when I have a large panorama that just won't fit into Alamy size restrictions otherwise. 

[John Mitchell]

I used to save everything at 10 for Alamy, especially when I was submitting scans and had a very slow Internet connection. Now that things have sped up a bit, I usually save at 11 or 12 depending on the resulting file size. Have never had any complaints about images saved at 10, though.

[John Mitchell]

Here's a couple of things to think about.  File compression throws pixels away, or more accurately you can say that the jpeg compression looks for values that are very close and combines them into a single value.  By doing this it eliminates the number of coding pairs it needs to encrypt. What this suggests to me is that jpeg compression subtlety impacts the quality of the image.  It is possible that compressing an image makes it softer because it is eliminating some of the more subtle contrast that helps to make things look sharper. It also suggests that jpeg compression is altering the contrast of an image. Secondly, it's been mentioned before that Alamy, and other agencies, compress the uploaded images further during the upload process to help minimize their storage requirements. So you have to ask yourself, " what is the reason to save as anything other than 12?"  Is a quicker upload all that important when you may be subtly altering the image quality ?  Unless you're uploading large batches of images, the amount of time is only annoying if you're watching the clock and waiting for the whole thing to fail. 

 

There's a tie in here with another discussion about size.  If you want to reduce the size of files being uploaded consider downsizing them to to a jpeg of 25mb to 30mb uncompressed.  This has the advantage of being large enough to slip into the the 25 - 48mb Alamy file size filter and allows for some subtle sharpening via size reduction.  To me that seems like a better approach than letting jpeg compression toss pixels out without regard to improving the image. 

 

I always save and upload at 12.  The only time I save at 10 or 11 is when I have a large panorama that just won't fit into Alamy size restrictions otherwise. 

 

Some good points to consider. Thanks.

[Inchiquin]

So you have to ask yourself, " what is the reason to save as anything other than 12?"  Is a quicker upload all that important when you may be subtly altering the image quality ?

 

This is the philosophy I've always adopted, but there are some who say that the difference is so tiny that it really isn't worth going the extra mile.

 

You pays yer money, you takes yer choice.

 

Alan

[Bill Brooks]

I cannot see the difference between a jpg compression of 10 and 12. However there is a difference, and you can prove it using the following method in photoshop.

 

Save the same file at both JPG level 10 and level 12 so you have two files Test10.jpg and test12.jpg.

 

Cut and paste these two files as layers into a photoshop file of the same dimensions. You now have two layers in register, one above the other.

 

Change the blend mode of the top layer to "difference". The image will go black, but not completely. Any difference pixel to pixel will show up as small white dots when you look at the file at 100%. Identical pixels will be black, different pixels will be white.

 

Try the tests with compressions at level 8, 6, 4 against level 12 and see the deterioration of the file.

 

The problem is quality change along the chain of possession. This applies not only to jpg compression. Colour balance differences between different monitors and presses is a big problem for the pressman. Sharpening on top of sharpening is another problem.

 

Some changes that go in different directions actually cancel each other out. However when they go in the same direction, thereby combining small deficiencies, they can create a big mess.

[Phil]

Image degradation due to JPG file compression is always something to keep in mind.  But how much is too much or too little?

 

This was a topic of discussion a few years ago during a class/workshop at one of our state professional photographers conventions.  These conventions include image competition judging by trained and experienced imaging judges so there's no lack of critical eyes.

 

At the workshop it was discussed that testing had been done on JPG image compression degradation and visible results.  Testing was done by saving the same image as a JPG multiple times with image inspection done after each save to see if a critical eye could discern where the image began to degrade.  I don't recall the details regarding if the inspection was done on the image file or a print or what level of jpg save was used.  

 

In any case the conclusion was that it took about 5-6 JPG saves of the same image file when degradation began to be noticeable. 

[Gervais Montacute]

JPEG 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 dependent on the camera.

[wiskerke]

The real problems arise when the client uses only a small part of the image, or wants it really big. And/or does his/her own manipulation of the image: down- or up-sizing, sharpening, dark overlays as a text background and so on.

The same goes for dust bunnies, artifacts and sharpening.

Having said that, most clients don't even know how to use photoshop any more. The better paying ones however are the ones that still tend to do some or a lot of manipulation themselves. Like for book covers or film posters.

 

wim