Tony C Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I am new here and I'm still trying to find my way around. I tried to find past threads about filling in the Alamy model release section about payment but I couldn't find anything and was hoping someone could give me some advice about how they fill that part in. The part that I am curious about is where it states 'for good and valuable Consideration of ..........., herein acknowledged as received'. I can see if I hire a model, but, what if I make a photograph of someone on the street or at a festival? Is it customary to offer them money? What is normally put in this section if it's just a spur of the moment shoot? Thank you for any advice or tips. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 From a practical point of view you are unlikely to get a model release for pics from an event or street photography so RM is your best bet. I suspect the price you get will not be much different. Always a good idea to have some spare forms in your bag just in case. dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thank you dov, it looks like I should use RM. I went to a Renesaince festival (I don't know how to spell it) last weekend so I brought some releases just in case. I had 4 people in costume sign the releases and several more were going to sign until they read the line that I was asking this forum about, and then they wanted money. What is usually put in this space if the model is not paid? Also, could we use a Model Release that doesn't have that part in it or do we need to use this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thank you very much, Geoff. I didn't even think about that, I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thank you dov, it looks like I should use RM. I went to a Renesaince festival (I don't know how to spell it) last weekend so I brought some releases just in case. I had 4 people in costume sign the releases and several more were going to sign until they read the line that I was asking this forum about, and then they wanted money. What is usually put in this space if the model is not paid? Also, could we use a Model Release that doesn't have that part in it or do we need to use this one? Consideration can be as simple as offering a print in return for their signing the release. Geoff, do you really think it's easier and cheaper to make a print and deliver it to a stranger than paying a small amount? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Alamy fees rarely justify paying for a release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Bringing a few copies of the release in the rucksack is always a good idea.I would consider a generic release form that could be used with various agencies. You never know where you would like to upload in the future.Have sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thank you very much Niels. I have received PM and that helps a lot. Just what I was looking for. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. L. Howard Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Many times you don't have to offer a print, just a medium-res digital file will work. In this day of the "it's all about me" facebook life style, hand the person your card with the picture file number on the back. Tell them you will send them a picture that they can use for facebook or what ever (watch their eyes light up) if they send an email and make sure they mention the day and file number. Also tell them if the picture is good enough after processing it, you might even ask them to sign a release to use for your portfolio or even get published. Many times they will sign a release right there with no hassle. I usually put © and my name on a small watermark on the bottom or side when I send the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Thank you K. L. Howard. Very good idea. I will try it. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Baigent Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Some of the Fuji street guys give a print there and then using the portable (batter) printerWorks fron iphone/android and from some fuji cameras.http://instax.com/share/en/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
York Photographer Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This makes for a scary read! http://petapixel.com/2015/01/11/help-sued-nearly-500000-model-photographed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Baigent Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I pay models, family and friends are usually happy with a print Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This makes for a scary read! http://petapixel.com/2015/01/11/help-sued-nearly-500000-model-photographed/ Fortunately suing isn't a sport here. I was once threatened with all manner of legal stuff by the American lawyer of a company whose app caused infringing material (including mine) to appear on a UK website. He hadn't noticed that England is a different country. Duly ignored and I wish now I'd proceeded against the infringer because he may now think that he scared me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Just a word of warning about any releases signed in the street... ..a model release is a legal agreement and to be fully legitimate has to be exercised as such. The terms have to be fully explained and depending on the circumstances, cool off periods may apply. I personally would never rely on a release signed in the street, for me its just about as worthless as anyone elses random autograph.* There is also the issue about ICO registration and passing on personal details to a 3rd party, if thats not done correctly, that too could make the release invalid (in the eyes of a court at least as far as the agency is concerned). The only releases that are 100% sound are for models who are paid a proper consideration and who come to your place of work with the intention of being paid models. Joe *the caveat is that very very limited releases for clients at events and they would never be applicable for stock and only applicable to the single use in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Just a word of warning about any releases signed in the street... ..a model release is a legal agreement and to be fully legitimate has to be exercised as such. The terms have to be fully explained and depending on the circumstances, cool off periods may apply. I personally would never rely on a release signed in the street, for me its just about as worthless as anyone elses random autograph.* There is also the issue about ICO registration and passing on personal details to a 3rd party, if thats not done correctly, that too could make the release invalid (in the eyes of a court at least as far as the agency is concerned). The only releases that are 100% sound are for models who are paid a proper consideration and who come to your place of work with the intention of being paid models. Joe *the caveat is that very very limited releases for clients at events and they would never be applicable for stock and only applicable to the single use in hand. Is this your opinion or have you taken advice on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Just a word of warning about any releases signed in the street... ..a model release is a legal agreement and to be fully legitimate has to be exercised as such. The terms have to be fully explained and depending on the circumstances, cool off periods may apply. I personally would never rely on a release signed in the street, for me its just about as worthless as anyone elses random autograph.* There is also the issue about ICO registration and passing on personal details to a 3rd party, if thats not done correctly, that too could make the release invalid (in the eyes of a court at least as far as the agency is concerned). The only releases that are 100% sound are for models who are paid a proper consideration and who come to your place of work with the intention of being paid models. Joe *the caveat is that very very limited releases for clients at events and they would never be applicable for stock and only applicable to the single use in hand. Is this your opinion or have you taken advice on this? My opinion would be worth the paper its written on (including the post above). I do this for a living and as such need to be sure that everything I do is legal (my insurance will insist on it in the event of any comeback). I dont fault the agencies here either, they do enough to cover themselves. Ive had discussions with agency legal departments before and they werent interested in anything other than covering themselves (I can see their point). If they have a signed bit of paper then they are covered and under the contract it is the contributors responsibility to make sure the release is legal. As I said above, there are only certain conditions that I would consider a release 100% legal for my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I do this for a living as well. So do many of us. Assuming you are talking about English law, some of your observations differ from my understanding, so it's fair to ask if yours is based on advice. Do you mind telling us? For example, it's my understanding, on which I haven't taken advice, that an adult can be held to a contract they have signed as long as they have not been misled, but you say more is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 For example, it's my understanding, on which I haven't taken advice Mark, I suggest you do take advice on the matter. Most commercial solicitors will give you advice on contract law (your local small business agency should have local contacts). If you are in the FSB or a trade union or even your commercial insurers might have a fixed rate legal helpline to call for advice. Above all else it is up to you to ensure what you are doing covers you and your business and you have the personal contact to back that up. The advice really isnt that expensive in the scheme of things and with changes in EU law happening periodically, its something that its worthwhile occassionally checking on. A lot of the good solicitor firms and government bodies will have periodic email updates. One such update was the cross border EU VAT rules that changed this month. Not applicable to me as I dont do direct digital downloads but if I did it would be a major hassle to implement. Its all part of the cost of doing business and most people dont realise its a business and every time you submit a form to an agent you could be potentially risking a lot of dough/hassle. Its worth being sure of it rather than just making a guess based on an understanding. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Your reply implies to me that it is advice and not opinion. I was hoping you would share that fact but apparently not. I use a standard release on the odd occasion it's necessary but it would have been useful to know whether it was reasonably watertight or not. The usual sources of information seem to be happy with it. I don't think it's anything to do with EU law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The usual sources of information seem to be happy with it. I don't think it's anything to do with EU law. Its not the release that matters per se, the wording can influence of course but how the 'contract' is actioned. Thats where you need to have a chat with a solicitor to see how it affects what you are doing. No point me giving advice or opinion as IANAL and saying 'Joe Fox' told me so wont stand up in court. Of course saying you were following advice from Rumpole and sons solicitors might have a slightly different bearing on things. To be pedantic for a minute, it doesnt really matter if you dont think its anything to do with EU law. You not thinking it is will not influence whether it does or not. Thats my entire point, you need to find out exactly what applies to you and how you do business. Its not a matter of getting an autograph on a sheet of paper. I remember doing jury service and one of the first things the judge instructed us was 'ignorance of the law is no defence'. That did have an effect on me and I was only on the jury! I do something similar to what I think Geoff posted, I get two forms signed, the release and a receipt with relevant information on it saying the model has been paid. I dont think the fact that two people do something very similar is coincidental. Probably based on good practice advice received. Most if not all the issues with model releases (as in the case mentioned) have little to do with how the release was worded but more to do with how the contract was exercised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.